I just noticed the demons book, lists angels used to constrain demons.i thought we are allies of demons. Surely using angels to constrain them, would contradict that.
I thought that as well - I use the information and evoke in my own way
I stopped using the Damon Brand books BUT I may go back once I’ve done a bit more research and analysis - but personally I really, really love the Goetic entities and Dukante hierarchies and I’ve found that Winterfied explains things in a way that is easy for me to relate to and adapt as well as gives information which is not easily accessible elsewhere.
Sadly I don’t know the solution to your issue other than perhaps you need a bridge to escape the quicksand first before attempting to fly back to the UK?
I have used Gordon’s book many many times. Using the rituals does not offend the spirit at all. Even though I have a really good relationship with a couple of spirits, I still use ritual 1 when doing a formal petition.
Look at the ritual as a business meeting. On your first petition, the spirit does not know you and you do not know the spirit. You do your petition, there are some neutral third parties there (angels, view them as accountants or attorneys or whatever), the spirit looks over your petition and decides if he or she wants to work with you. The angels cannot make the demon want to do business with you and vise versa. You state your terms and if agreed upon, then you may potentially have a new business partner so to speak.
After the first initial success, everybody is happy, magician and spirit. You do some more business together, properly doing the ritual for the petition, but after a couple of times, it becomes more than business. You get to know each other. You start building a personal relationship.
After a while, you become close. You go out for drinks, go to each others houses for dinner, get to know each others families, etc… You may even do a business deal on the back of a cocktail napkin, but at the end of the day, whether you are working with a new business partner or spirit, there is still a formality. All contracts in the real world or petitions in this case, still get done in writing, no matter how friendly you have become.
It is not that you are afraid that you are going to get screwed over, quite the contrary, you know that you will not once the relationship gets that strong. It is just what it is, a formality, nothing more, nothing less. As far as having the angels during the ritual, like I said before, it is a non event. Now if you go into the “meeting” guns blazing saying things like “I brought my angel backup, do this deal now” or if you go into the ritual hostile or afraid, things may not go so well.
It comes down to intent. Treat the spirits with respect just like you would if you went into a regular business meeting and chances are that you will start building a foundation for a great relationship, business wise and personally. At least this has been my experience.
Excellent description, bookmarked!
Thank you, for explaining that to me. I downloaded a sample of the book. I was enjoying it, but then he started explaining, who names of the angels are formed using Hebrew, and using lines of a Psalm, followed by another line of text from the Old Testament; and that just did not make sense to me, and why would that be the case?? Then the use of the name of Yahweh or Jehovah, who is the real devil, in my opinion. It doesn’t make sense to me, and it seemed like a lot of unnecessary hard work, so I just deleted the sample. There has to be an easier and more straightforward way of communicating with demons.
I would like to hear your view.
Thank you for explaining that to me, but aren’t angels and demons enemies of each other? I also view Jehovah as the real devil, and Lucifer as the benevolent God.
I find that it is a long-winded way of doing things.
The sample of the book was appealing to me, but then it explained that the names of angels are encoded in the first line of a Psalm, combined with another text from the Old Testament. Then it just seemed unlikely to me, and I deleted the sample of the book. Perhaps I am missing something.
I would like to hear your opinion.
Honestly, I can go only by my experiences from using the book. The book has been a great way for me to “meet” certain spirits from the Goetia and I would not change a thing on how it has gone. The relationships I have been building with certain spirits has been wonderful to say the least and these relationships are getting stronger day by day. The book has been invaluable to me.
You say that it seems like a long-winded way of doing things and maybe you are right or maybe you are not. For me, it really is not a bother to do the ritual but if it does not “speak” to you, then that is ok also. You may find a way that is better for you. I only use ritual 1 from the book for formal petitions. When I want to speak to one of the spirits, I just use their seal and enn. No need for the ritual, but then again, I already have a good relationship with said spirit.
As far as angels and demons being enemies, maybe they are, maybe they are not. The spirits I work with know who’s side I am on. It all comes down to intent and respect and after a while forming a strong personal bond.
My advice is to find a method that you are comfortable with and do that. Just be careful with thinking that things are long-winded or trying to look for shortcuts. Putting in the effort is part of it and if you try to cut corners with a spirit, they may just cut corners with you.
Thank you for your reply. Yes, you are right. If it works it works. I just feel, it should be a matter of tuning your mind to the spirit, as we used to to Jehovah or an angel in prayer.
What you say makes sense also. I guess, I just got used to communicating with others, via the mobile phone. Lol. Based on what you have said, i will download the book, and see how it goes. Thank you.
Please feel free to message me anytime.
No problem. Glad to help.
You are welcome. I live in Ireland, but I would prefer to move back to the UK. I am 52yo. Please tell me a little about yourself?
I’ve made this its own topic, because it’ll just get buried in the Intros thread and is also a bit of a derailment for there.
Oh wow - I hadn’t realised this had taken on a life of its own - bookmarked!
Maybe you should give this a read: Queen of Pentacles Conjure Blog: Conjure with the Goetia
Please tell me: is it necessary to draw a big circle, with Hebrew names around it? I ask because my bedroom, is a very small box room, and I do not have much space for drawing a circle.
Thank you. I appreciate the link and advice.
The physical circle is a tool. The symbolism behind it relates to the auric field Always around you. The different phsyical circles are related to specific energies being raised through concentrating on them in the ritual charging the aura and and the area in the case of evocation in a specific way. Usually in a way that makes it easier to shift perception for spiritual work.
For example the use of the LBRP and LBH is to clear your awareness or personal reailty matrix of outside influences and energies. The cross ritual at the beginning and end is ment to expand you aura and your area of influence. After this is done you can bring very specific forces (be they energies or entities) into your ritual space to work with then dismiss and then banish(to clear excess lingering energies) or not depending on the operation after the work.
Personally using angels to constrain demons is an insult at it finest peak. Its more of a basis for newer magicians who fear what the demons may do to them and subdue them into obediance although working with demons for over 10 years i never used angels to constrain them. Angels are more stubborn to work with IMO
From what i can tell there seems to be a relation to the persons view of angels that can effect how well operations involving them go. I never and any issues learning from Michael, but i see them through the lens of hemetics rather then the religious lenses that tend to come with polarizing dogma.
Thank you, Dinmiatus, for explaining this to me. I always assumed the circle was for protection. Thank you again.
Thank you, Godmagus. That was now I felt about it also. It feels like calling in the “heavies”, to ensure the demons comply.