I’ve never done this, and I never fucking will. This always angers me.
I’ve made posts answering this question before.
Put it this way, if you called me and another friend (for these purposes let’s say you called over @Nyxifer) and told me that if I didn’t do what you wanted, you’d get Sublimis to hurt me, I’d be pretty pissed off and really wouldn’t want to help you and in fact I’d probably want to go after you.
This is basically what using god names does. You’re threatening someone with someone else so you can get your way.
But that is only if you are indeed threatening and not just following a system. I’ve never had to follow a system like that, but if it is done with respect I’m sure it would be fine.
Here or by Koetting’s words I once read that the Demons wouldn’t really mind, letting the magician believe that he “constrained” them. In any case I’m interested in trying again the (slightly modified) classical grimoires conjurations.
I used them years ago but learned a few things; also, I removed the parts with threats and a bit too much commands.
What divine words of power, Egyptian, Hebrew, Arabic, Greek, Gaelic, Russian, Navaho, or other languages?
It would be interesting to attempt evocation using no language, such as a clan of the bear worshipper.
Honestly, I don’t use em
I just call up the spirit, regardless if they are “malevolent”, besides these guys have no reason to harm you, unless ya piss them off.
I prefer the up close and personal kinda talk, and they seem to enjoy it as well.
I’ve only used names of power in exorcism, but Demonic names.
To use a saturnine form on a powerful consciousness is obviously the process one needs to employ that power to perform work. But, constraining a powerful consciousness with threats of using a Hebrew god name seems like a child playing in their own sandbox. And it is rather doubtful that 1 in a million people know what the god name actually is or represents. The Hebrew system of magic is hidden in plain sight and no one talks about it. Most often, because they are hell bent on destroying the god(s) of ignorant children rather than searching for the kernel of truth hidden under layers.
Personally, I agree and think there is a difference between the traditional old style conjurations which have words threatening the demon that if they don’t obey You, God will smite them down, and throw them into a fiery pit, etc , and the more modern approach used by the GOM. Their view is more that by invoking the names of god, e.g. ‘By the power of EE AH OH,’ you are stating to the demon that you have the authority to call on them to do your bidding. I think that’s slightly different than threatening. The angelic Sigils they use are to ensure the demon will work effectively for you. I use the GOM books and found their approach works for me. But I also use other works like Corwin Hargrove who doesnt use amgelic sigils in his book Demons of Wrath, and that works too.
I do find the old style approach of threatening them offensive, yes and wouldn’t use it. If someone wanted my help and threatened to smite me down if they didn’t get it, my response would be ‘go fck yourself, why should I help you?’. Whereas if someone asked me respectfully, Id be more likely to help. I think its the same with the spirits.
Depends on perspective and working praxis. If your coming from the goetic rituals for example that the powers your calling on are outside yourself. Then it is of limited or no benefit. But if you are working from the angle that you are the divine authority in the circle then you are calling upon your own powers to summon the spirits worked with. Of course this angle is working off the assumption that the practitioner has done enough work that they realize their their own power on a subconscious level so their subconscious isnt working against their active works. Also Intent matters.
This is one example of taking a system and making it your own. This is another with the kaballah. You could use a similar method to consecrate the tools of the goetic works to your own power.
When you think of it Divine words are pretty stupid…think about it.
You’re calling an entity to do something for you yet, you’re surrounding them with divine names which is the spiritual equivalent to putting someone at gunpoint and telling them to give you their money.
Again depends on working angle. For example is it stupid for someone fairly new to call on the name of shive, durga,kali,thor,odin, the morrigan, the elements, planets, demon or Angel to help rid them of parasitic spirits, potential hexes or self jinxes or the influences of spirits someone may have set against them.
These forces exist within and without. The above example is one of taking back your own power. I suspect this is the general praxis of those who do use goetic operations with success and zero backlash. They are calling on the aspects of their own inner divinity not the desert troll that usurped the names. Best example that comes to kind is Frater Xavier who runs the mind and magick channel on youtube.
He does goetic operations totally to spec from my understanding.
BmoA has similar operations that are built around taking back and exploring ones own divine power.
I see it more as the names are used to empower the operator similar to how the middle piliar empower the aura.
Within bmoa there is a 40 day operation that involves the inverted names of ahura mazda. After these names are charged and can be used for magical operations. Each inverted name being a different title or aspect of power that can be explored.
Ive been using them as mantras and to make dark staot sonic spells for charging sigils and talismans. Ive barely scratched the surface of what all these can do
This was my post from a while back where I talked about how I viewed the ritual from the GOM book 72 Demons of Magick as a business transaction. In my experiences, the spirits have not found it offensive at all and in fact, I have built a great relationship with each one.
I’ve read different posts about how demons and angels are enemies and they can’t work together and I think “How do you know, were you their court appointed mediator?” Maybe they are, maybe not. I don’t know, you don’t know, none of us really know.
Another one is that it offends the demons. Now it could if you go in there acting like a tough guy, but once again, how do you really know?
Well, common sense says that it does. Maybe, but from what I’ve learned in my short time doing magick is that you can take common sense, throw it out the window, and then close the window because you don’t want it coming back in. Now you do have to be smart, respectful, etc… but what you think works because common sense says it should does not always and things that fly in the face of common sense can sometimes work out very well. It’s all trial and error. Lots of trials, a ton of errors, and maybe at the end of the day, you will learn something.
I am against the idea of using divine names to constrain demons. I own a few books that say demons will reciprocate what you expect from them and how you treat them. Issue is is that I, a beginner who is yet to refine his intuition (or trust it, idk), can’t verify this idea. We are surrounded by various media that re-enforce the cliche “demons are evil” idea. Plus some left hand path books don’t help either. Beginners want to feel safe. So for certain the use of divine names can be necessary for beginners. I still don’t like the idea, though. I don’t like invoking the Christian God’s name or his angels though. I’d rather call on the names of Pagan gods and their servants, but not to threaten or coerce the demons, but to act as a protective measure. It only makes sense humans who aren’t use to working with demons would feel nervous and want to keep them at arms length, and given history, I’d understand demons may feel the same way about us. Hell, we treat other people no different. When you meet a stranger, there are unwritten rules as to how you’re suppose to interact with them until trust is developed. In fact, we have authority figures in various places where people will meet to step in when things get too close for comfort.
Using divine names is unfortunately necessary. The method and intent may vary. If there is a way to use this method to ensure safety, not to enslave, then I’d like to hear it.
