Do you need to use a circle if you show respect to the demons?
You don’t really need a circle at all tbh.
I was just wandering cause I read that some demons like Sitri is a dangerous demon.
Let me put it this way, you create the danger around you. Be nice and sitri is likely to show the same kindness back. But you’re not his slave either.
It’s not disrespectful.
Hi, you can always protect yourself with an imaginary circle. On the other hand trust them to be just like humans in character. The evil part is mostly by human created dogma.
The purpose of the circle is to represent in the physical the border you have made in the astral. As above so below, so… The triangle, the circle the whole thing is happening in the astral and it’s to help you focus and indicate through symbolism what you are wanting your subconscious mind to be doing. So when you draw the circle, your subconscious mind traces one in the astral. When spirits come to manifest before us what we are really seeing is the astral overlapping the physical and be perceiving both simultaneously. This is how to kind of understand it, in the physical world light bounces off objects and hits our eyes creating our visual perception of our reality.
Now in the movie Predator starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Jessy Ventura. Which was based on true events in Panama. Anyhow, the predator sees in another spectrum. He sees heat and because of this he can see right through walls at the heat of a body or anything that had a temperature.
When Arnold discovers that the mud hides his heat he was then invisible to the predator. But the predator himself has a camouflage mechanism that allows him to bend light and become invisible to us.
What does all this have to do with the astral?
Well imagine that the astral is seeing heat and when your senses to perceive the astral are open you see that heat or astral light.
Your subconscious mind interprets the spirit which actually does not have form or weight but is perceived as thought and emotion energy mostly but definitely some temperature fluctuation and some changes in the magnetic field, that can be measured with devices.
But for the most part you are dealing with thought energy and until you can think with pure thought all information must be translated by the subconscious to the consciousness via the same dream mechanisms we have when we sleep. You see magick is about taking the equipment we have /ourbrains/r moding and hacking it to get more uses out of it than we normally do, and or use it in different ways.
The circle is really tool in the mind hackers toolkit. But if you can visualize a circle around you you don’t necessarily need one on the floor. But if you are trying to have a physical /astral experience it certainly helps. Cheers!
This is extremely important even outside magic.
For example, when you clean your house, your astral is also getting cleaned.
That’s why they say ‘cleanliness is next to godliness’.
That’s why people can feel their level of consciousness rise (feel more alive) after a bath.
Protective Circles are just a bad idea. Circles that heighten manifestations are not.
My thoughts on it are similar I view the circle as something to keep out thoughts that are not supposed to be there in the ritual. Such as the worries and troubles of the day that creep in and disrupt ones main focus, or even wandering ghosts or spirits that might come into one’s astral view that might distract one from the intended goal, which is of course communication with a specific spirit. The circle also is useful for a containing and focusing of energy, emotion and thought.
Depends on the type of circle. For protection type circles you first need to understand that it is not going to do a damn thing for you unless you back the border you create with some serious aggression. Many practitioners will tell you a spirit can cross one at will but I disagree. On the other hand, you have to ask yourself why you would want to keep your guest at a distance and re-evaluate working with that guest.
Other than that most circles are just staking your position in the astral, so you don’t need a physical one. If you are a beginner you may want to use one. The tools can help in the beginning. I don’t draw one or use salt/flour any more, but I still register it while I am working, sometimes with circumambulation.
It’s interesting though that I am the only practitioner here that I know of evokes the Spirit INTO the Circle (which like the Universal Circle is meant to concentrate energies and heighten manifestation). I could stand in it I suppose, but what I tend to do is evoke the Spirit into the Circle in order to concentrate energies to aid the Spirit’s manifestation. Obviously, that is NOT AT ALL protective, in fact, if they wanted to kill me that’s probably the way to give them the best chances of doing so, but it definitely helps with solidifying manifestations.
The UC is also considered a manifestation base (like the triangle) by some, I know that was discussed in a very old thread about this somewhere.
That fits with the concept of the All being 1. within the magician (evoking omnipotence) and 2. the UC, or any stone circle aligned to mirror the cosmos, or any circle with godnames, which both defines the working area and also sets the magician, in that moment, as the creative power/paramount force of will of his own reality.
Thank you all for your help
Essentially it sounds like you are using the circle to manifest in a similar manner as some use a triangle during evocation, just without the dick confinement that some adhere to. Some people like to use a triangle, but not to bind; it is simply a focus. EA goes into detail in Evoking Eternity.
@Lady_Eva If you place the Spirit inside the Circle wouldn’t that mean that they become the creative power/paramount force of all reality by that theory? I’ve always approached it as a way to elevate the Spirit and not myself.
Yes, but if you are taski ng them with something, either as an ally or partner, whatever, then that’s a legit sharing of power.
Like the notion from Somolonic trad. that the demon must be summoned by the operator because this is mankind’s realm and we have the right to both summon and banish based on that.
I know you dislike that method (me too, for similar reasons) BUT the notion of mankind having the final say is found in a lot of magick, including in this exorcism of a spirit of sickness for example:
That’s the thing though. My approach has always been Master-Student (with the Spirit as the Teacher) and not an equal partnership. What would that make things then? What is the purpose of a circle for someone who takes the “traditional reverential approach” if you will? Also, I don’t really agree that this is our world in any way. Not really. As far as my experience goes this world is full of predatory beings and we are just the pawns. Furthermore, the Loa and Djinn seem to be far more the masters of this Earth than humans.
You would be acting as their priest, kind of “letting them in” by using the circle to unite your presence in this realm with their consciousness.
If you think of the circle as like being the helm on a ship, and you the captain, you can unite with someone to co-steer, or you can command them to steer for you, or you can yield the wheel to them - they all have the same basic effect, and it’s you who remain the agent of the power, the controller of the wheel so to speak.
I see the world as having predatory beings, for sure, but also full of guides and beings who will assist because they want to see certain things flourish - and I see it that way from experience, gods and spirits helped me as a chil, without asking more in return than for me to fulfil my magickal potential.
And love, I guess, but that was given freely and not really requested.
Loa are controversial because some of us who work with them find them to not be as needy of devotion as many find them to be withing the vodou religion.
But as a general statement, both require some form of interaction from people to express fully, djinn usually need to be summoned, and loa have rituals that need to be performed to permit them to be upon the earh, even a person’s met tet needs to be brought in.
I guess the altar upon which you’d place your service, and symbolically offer your world.
Don;t forget the planet is full of people who live for little more than the next Facebook “like” and TV shows, or other non-spiritual things, both noble and base.
The magician offers time and energy, and a portion of their world, their life, no matter how they view things or what path they walk.
@Lady_Eva I suppose my main problem with the idea that we humans co-create reality through our thoughts is that from what I’ve both seen and read we aren’t the only ones doing so. Even as our thoughts shape our reality there are Spiritual beings, mostly hostile, who are part of that co-creation with stronger wills and more power. Therefore, it is their will which is most reflected in our reality. That is what I believe is stifling magick on this world. It’s the fact that reality is co-created and most of the co-creators don’t want humans with power. That’s why I say that the destruction of the forces of Limitation will bring about a New World. Because it’s their contribution to co-creation which is the primary reason why the world is full of suffering and limitation.
Well, sure. I mean, I wouldn’t have any Spirits to serve if all of them were evil right?
Interesting. I view it differently of course. The approach I take is that the reason that these beings can’t manifest is because they are being kept away by these other hostile spiritual forces and that we are adding our will to cut through that obstruction and to give them the opening to manifest. It isn’t about allowing anything. It’s about two (or more) wills combining to cut through obstruction and achieve manifestation.