Trust the Universe?

You got some great replies on this, I have observed that a lot of people try to blend LoA (which is a very active path of identifying as the creator of your own reality) with passive misunderstandings of eastern concepts like karma, in which everything that happens is somehow necessary, righteous, and just, and must be allowed.

Used to drive me bloody nuts on white-light forums back when I was into all that. :rage:

“Everything is as it should be, just think happy thoughts, when you see things you don’t like, roll over and be passive because” (my personal favourite) “every time you point a finger, there are three more pointing back at you”… etc. :face_vomiting:

I heard enough of that to last me a lifetime.

“And that, your honour, was when the young Eva decided to stop pointing fingers, and find ways to swing fists instead” (magickally speaking of course :innocent: ).


What you found was fearful misunderstanding. The idea isn’t to think happy thoughts whilst you’re observing the unwanted because, that’s impossible. So the idea is to ignore the unwanted, and focus on what’s going well, and on things or people, or situations that bring you enjoyment, fun, love, etc. Sounds a bit woo-woo but it works ime.

So how to combine that with magick? Do the magick, vent/surrender your desire, come away feeling better. Keep your thoughts off the topic of the unwanted, and don’t talk about it. :wink:


Well, it’s similar to Wu-Wei.
Which is to not interfere, to swim with the natrual flow of things,
basically a little bit like becoming a natrual part of the enviorment.

To some, that’s really furfilling, and they get good with it.
And, it doesn’t mean you can’t do anything,
it means to seek a path with the least amount of friction and resistment possible.

However, for a rebelious mentality, this system simply doesn’t work.
Someone who needs to act on his own,
and feels something is wrong when just laying back and letting things happen,
will have tremendous issues with “just trusting into things going well”.

It also haves to do with your sense of balance and fear response systems,
in your body a little bit.

With children you can see it very clearly, when they have a craving for movement,
in order to gain focus and be able to concentrate on a topic,
or when they’re tunnel-vision mode,
and simply can’t process what’s going on in periphery vision.

With Wu-Wei practicioners, they actually train that broad perspective vision,
in order to be able to maintain the state of being zoomed out longer,
and with less effort.

Your practice, still helped you getting more insight into your actual desires and needs,
and therefore the best approach for you, will be to see it as a preperation phase,
to working more actively, with what you’ve learned.

But to be honest, we magicians, especially LHP,
rather have an mindset of “commanding the Universe to act / respond in specific ways.”
Or to “command something into existence, which previously didn’t exist.”

Just try out the tripple word of creation - OhmAumZui, for yourself.

You’ll notice quickly what i’m talking about.
And with time, how that differs from what you’ve learned originally through the secret.

I’m aware of what they teach,
i just think they don’t do it in a good way,
and they leave away a LOT of what actually makes these things work.

But maybe you can help me gain some clarification, towards that end.






Ok, first of all this – ‘’ But that was RHP and this is LHP which is cool but LHP is something which even after 8 years of this forum for some reason cannot be properly defined here. But still it is cool cuz it has demons in it. But demons are the good guy and angels are the bad guys. Though it goes completely against the basic concept of polarity but it doesn’t matter to be cuz I am gender fluid so for me everything is subjective and I can interpret everything subjectively stuff. ‘’

Now About Trust and surrender, a complete path by itself. There are many spiritual paths. Evocation and Invocation is One and Complete by itself as everything that can be gotten by other path can be gotten from this one also.

Like this there is the path of Concentration, Path of Awareness, Path which is based on energy work and all of this are complete in their entirety.

About Trust and surrender a path indeed associated with RHP and devotional path. Very feminine in nature . But Everything can be gotten by it and what is practiced now a days as trust and surrender is not even 0.01% of what it can actually provide.

Trust and surrender works on utilizing a concept called chitta- Cosmic intelligence, the intelligence which is governing every cell in your body, making the flower bloom on the right season etc. Try doing your all physical activity consciously, U WILL GOT NUTS. With in rhp it is completely opposite to the Path of awareness/consciousness. Taught in classical Buddhism

If you can surrender continuously and create a habit of it, after few months U will see that everything is falling as almost perfectly. The bus came the moment you reached bus stop. You got the right sit with the perfect view etc. Everything will start to cooperate - work for you.

If you continue the path it will take you to places YOU CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE, LITERALLY.

Most of the magick where one uses imagination at some point in future and sees it manifest later is also using this very intelligence-chitta. But its Rajasic use of the intelligence, the surrender-trust is sattvic approch.

Anyway, I don’t generally discuss much eastern stuff here as I got the clear message that unless you have some demonic cum stuck on you face, you or your tradition isn’t much welcomed here.

But still, don’t write off something without even doing some research or even trying to understand it first.


You’re sassy today! :stuck_out_tongue:

Ahem: "Left-Hand Path," "Right-Hand Path," And Definitions

Some of us try, and Stephen Flowers especially did the heavy lifting on that very subject with his book Lords Of The Left-Hand Path.

To be fair, calling one thing good and its opposite bad is an almost dictionary-perfect definition of polarity. :thinking:

In fact, one argument against the conept of demons and angels is that all things are on a continuum and that such radical polarity doesn’t exist. The classic newage “Duality bad, unity good, all things are One and all is as it should be” thing.

While I have different reasons for not seeing demons and angels as at eternal war or even opposition, I mention this because it’s the most common newage reason for avoiding demonic evocation. :+1:

Yup. Notice that the colours of this site’s branding match the 3 gunas? I don’t know how deliberate that was, but it’s interesting.

Tamasic use IMO is worship of dead cults and utter submission of that same co-creative Divine within to external parasitic entities and ideologies. but that’s another topic and already covered plenty on here.

Damn right, be up for some Belial bukkake or you ain’t getting a table in this establishment, mister! :stuck_out_tongue:

(Only to spoil it by mentioning, I joined having NOT done any work with “demons” and several years in, have not found I needed to dilute or relinquish my core concepts and methods, simply add in a few more invisible chums and some darker powers from “beyond the clockwork mechanism” so to speak. But that’s a magnificent rant you have here. :+1: )


Oh, so you dissed your own argument on the very next line. Classic.
So now even the law of polarity doesn’t exist. Now even the 7 seven hermetic principle are bullshit as it suits your line of argument in this thread. RETARDATION EVERYWHERE.

And even if exists then the demons are the good guy and angels are the bad. WHich completely goes against the core concept of the whole angelic-demonic tradition. But doesn’t matter, I was given some red dick so they are the good ones to me. And Fuck objectivity. !

yea, just cuz some spirit said something to me, it’s true. AND SPIRITS DON’t LIE, FOR SURE !!!

REALLY ??? Just politely ask, will happily leave.

That;s the problem. FOr some reason It is always About christian or anti-christian. Even 14 year olds on reddit who just got introduced to Sam Harris and Hitchens’s work isn’t this autistic and glitches this much. JMO

Made the previous post about How the concept of Trust-surrender works as spiritual tool. But for some reason Over sensitive itches always take prevalence.


You’re missing the point that I was criticising, even mocking, that newage “all things are one duality is bad” bullshit. :thinking:

I post the Kybalion on here 1 - 2 times a week, hardly the action of someone who regards hermetic principles as useless, especially since every few times it will generate PMs or e-mails to me asking for exposition on the material in it.

Which I happily do of my free time and because i think those principles are very important and useful in understanding causlity and the Divine Paradox, which I quoted per the Kybalion right in another topic, just a few hours ago.

Erm, dude the straw man you address here cannot be me, right?

You do KNOW I did this? The Angel Of Lost Things - Sigil & Information

I can’t convey how brain-wiped that energy leaves me but I can tell you it’s far more debilitating than anything demonic, and some of those are no picnic.

I witnessed Belial and Raphael communicating with each other in a more civilised manner than you’re talking to me right now. :kiss:

I also was advised BY Raphael to call on Marbas for a thing because it was more in his line. Marbas is considered a demon.

It was a joke. :crying_cat_face:

I thought you’d get it since we have had many civilised conversations before, and afaik Timothy hasn’t posted a new thread called “[Penis Treaty] No More Ducking the Demonic Dicking”… or something.

Not for me, I am usually on the side of “why obsess about this desert cult so much when there are worlds of wonder out there?” - very much including Hindu metaphysics for which I have the utmost respect, not as hollow words but actual years of dedicated commitment.

You want to talk demons in Hinduism? What about Shiva’s demonic son who stripped the flesh from his own bones in an act of asceticism?


Trusting the universe doesn’t mean rolling over and taking everything up the butt like most people like to do.

Nor does it mean to forget how to think and instead throw responsibility to some other being to control your life.

The best way to grow is to work with infinity instead of against it, because if you decide to work against it you’ll get your ass kicked by infinities immune system.

Ever watch the episode of rick and morty with the microverse battery? “One of two things would happen, either I would have to toss a broken battery, or the battery wouldn’t be broken anymore”.

Just so happens that if the battery isn’t broken, you can pretty much choose to do whatever else you want too.


This flow and be thinking happy sounds a little Christ like in a way. Just let God and happy carebear angels take care of you and it’ll be pink fluffy clouds with rainbow brute and my little ponies forever. And in some ways there are those who believe the “demons” or whatever gods will do similar.

Ok, just live and let live. Sounds like bloody surrender. How god awful boring. I’d rather fight eternally esp when you know 1 down and an infinite amount rise up stronger than before. Can’t be bored there.
Mans this LHP VS RHP sounds so close to liberal/conservative and Democrat/Republican in comparisons.

“Surrender, flow, let the shepherd take care of you. Weeeeeeeeee a safe water slide.”

Jump into the rocky rapids as boulders come at you knocking you off that waterfall cliff into the swirling whirlpool of death. Kick the crap out of idiot gibberish souls in a sea of flame as leviathan beasts smash at you… bitchslap that archangel and punch a dragon in the face. Spit in gods eye and say BRING IT BITCH! Let’s play annihilation. If you are aware now… it’s doubful you can be destroyed so challenge them all.


I know, A billion people will disagree with me, literally but Shiva and Varuna are forces which causes suffering on everyday life. The version where shiva The destroyer destroy the universe is for those with below 60 I.Q . In come place an athlete’s dream gets destroyed cuz he broke his back in an accident. A child’s innocence get’s destroyed Cuz he is raped at 9. A simple man’s life gets destroyed cuz he is constantly bullied in office and finds out he has cancer and thus commits suicide. The act of destruction is happening every moment.

Now why is shiva though malevolent is still God and other malevolent entities are anti-god? Not going into details but He is still God and to the individual devotee benevolent.

I have no problem with Malice- Dark art. Just spreading half-cooked information isn’t good. That’s all. And giving some basic respect to the other camp. RHP should common sense behavior. My Yellow Power Ranger is Stronger and better than Green Power Ranger is Childish stuff.

Common, it was never about you. I just talk like this, Never got any proper Education on Behavior. AND U know I love U. The only person I Liked this much was in college, Wrote a poem for her but could never give it her. IT wasn’t that good like the last one. :smirk:


Very basic Satanic Principles of Destruction, Creation and other forces in black magick. The problem is people keep worshipping knowledge and turning it into all these entities.


Heres a question to ask yourself. Are you “burning” for yourself or for the random chaos soup of the populace? I prefer to chill out and lean back and watch; to only get heated when it is for something I highly favor.

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No idea if that’s meant for me, assuming since you’re responding to my thread, but if so, that’s a lot of assumptions you’re making.

I practiced the RHP for years. I tried the path of surrender for years. I had spiritual awakening experiences that left me in a state of desirelessness for months. I know where that path goes, and I honestly hated it. I thought it was very destructive.

Honestly I believe the strength of the LHP is its philosophy, whether you use demons or not. But you seem to just like to mock things I never said, so I won’t put in the effort to explain further.


Well believe me, If you really were desire-less for 21 days you wouldn’t be here. It may seem being desireless but a lot goes on below the surface level of the mind.

Well I don’t know which version of Philosophy of LHP and it’s definition you are talking but The real one coming from Where I live and from where this two term LHP and RHP originated is not easy stuff. As I said before, Many macho marines will crap in their pants knowing what kind of practice goes on in Vamachara. Sure you have heard the term before.

I come from eastern region of India, Where most violent-wrathful deities are worshiped seeing which many demonic practitioners will raise their eyebrow. Just few kilometers from my ancestral house is an acient kali temple, called ’ Bolla kali’ ( Google it she is beautiful ) with an idol of around 40-50 feet, I think. Every year over 10000 pigeons, 1000 goats and 100 buffalos are butchered there as sacrifice and she is supposed to give both pleasure and spiritual ascension. An ancient practice is prevalent there where a devotee who wants quick success or is on the verge of ruin and wants to somehow get out of at ‘ANY COST’ there plunges a dagger into his body and makes sure the blood coming out from there directly falls on HER feet. And to me even that is RHP.

I am not that anti-christian but Evangelicals are building Churches opposite of every big Indian temple, Just to demonstrate - show off power against Idol worship. It has become a big political issue here. Sadly A big church is also being constructed there next to the temple. Evangelicals are INDEED a big problem.

Don’t know where I mocked You, Was just a bit pumped up this morning. Sorry If I said something offensive. Just take it lightly.

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We took that as a foundation and created a new term to describe a distinct phenomena. :smiley:

It’s all covered in-depth in Flowers’ book I recommended above.

It is, by both definitions, surely?


It’s not a new term. IT’s google translation. Vama means left and achara means path or conduct. Should have been a bit more creative. It’s dumb as hell.

No, that’s how language evolves, it uses terms and changes the meaning for a new need.

200 years ago fewer people in the west were interested in ascent to isolate states of parashiva-like creative/destructive power. When it became a thing, we needed a term, and the existing use of “sinister” made this one look suitable for repurposing in English.

Most languages take bits of English and use them, in turn. :man_shrugging:

The Japanese word for suit is “sabiru” - taken from the name, Savile Row, famous for the best tailors in the country.


sorry but didn’t get that. :confused:

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WTF??!! SO you are saying the word ’ Sinister’ is what describes Para-shiva nondual practice in English speaking country?

Not true. It;s a baby language. Compared to the ancient ones like Latin, Hebrew, Cantonese and Sanskrit.