Triangles & Circles....What's an Occultist 2Do?

Greetings All,

My very first post here on BALG!!! Long story short friends - like most people starting out in the Arte I have limited funds, time, practice space and I didn’t even know about this site/forum until AFTER I spent a shit ton of money on various Occult Books.

Currently I own “Evoking Eternity: Chthonian Edition” and just ordered “The Book of Azazel” last week from Nephilim Press and am still waiting for my copy. I wanted to ask for help from this forum regarding some questions I have about the Triangle & The Circle:

  1. Since I have limited space - Does the Circle HAVE to be exactly 9’?
    A local Magician here in my home town told me that you gotta do what you gotta do when you have limited anything.

  2. Does the Triangle of Arte HAVE to be exactly 3’ per side for evocation?
    Can I make it smaller do to costs?

  3. Materials for the Triangle - I was think a piece of Oak wood? But this would be so damn expensive if I had to make it 3’ per side.
    3.1. From looking at the other posts, I guess the circle could be done on cloth, and I believe I saw a reply in draks post about a photo cloth?

  4. Do I have to change out the Circle inscriptions every time I do an Evocation depending on the entity that I want to work with?
    4.1. Is their a “general purpose” circle that I’m not aware of?

Well guys & girls, as you may be able to tell, this will be my first evocation and I want to get it “right” for me as much as possible to maximize my percentage of manifesting my will without hurting myself or going crazy…heehee!!!

Thank you all…kind regards and BE WELL!!!

Mode_439

1 Like

1 - Nope

2 - Nope

3 - My triangle is on MDF, which cost me about $3 for a meter square, works fine.

4 - No need to change the inscription, I use just a plain black circle painted on a white bed sheet at the moment. a lot of people here use their circle of pacts for every ritual.

I think there probably are benefits from having prettier, more expensive tools in a dedicated temple, but when you are starting out you will have way to many other things to worry about rather than the quality of your tools. Also it gives you something to do rituals for in those weeks when life is pretty sweet and you can’t really think of where to direct your energy

Dear Soundwave,

Thank you so very much for your assistance! Interestingly, I’ve been on some other forums and man…their seems to be A LOTTTT of attitude & unwillingness to assist others on this path. That has been so frustrating for me and I’m sure with many others too!

By the way my friend, regarding the MDF board, do you think that I could comfortably use a piece that let’s say is 1’ per side?

Also, I believe I can find The Circle of Pacts in The Book of Azazel? Again, I’m still waiting on my copy.

White bed sheet…OK! I believe I can swing that! Any suggestions on diameter of Circle? I think I’d like to actually sit Burmese style (American Indian style) on my meditation cushion (my zafu & zabuton) since that’s how I’m most comfortable, and have my notes with me. Any thoughts?

Whilst I can understand some of the sentiments of the people on those forums, they really are living in the past. The time of occult elitism is done, in the time it would take me to write a dick post I could just give the information that you need and actually get you going.

If you happen to be really into your kabbalah you will benefit from having you items constructed in a numerologically significant way, if you aren’t aware of those correspondences then it isn’t going to make any difference. As you read through EE you will see that E.A. recommends moving away from even using a triangle.

The circle of pacts is in the BoA, until yours arives there is a topic showing peoples circles in the Complete works subforum.

My circle is paint onto a king size bed sheet. I made it pretty much the full size of the sheet but I have worked my way to having a dedicated temple in my house so that is fine for me. If you are going small, it only really needs to be big enough to fit you and your ritual tools. In BoA E.A. works without an altar, I think its a useful thing to have, I currently use a portable artists easel.

With my ritual work I indulge in many things that are unnecessary to successful workings because I enjoy the artistic and theatrical nature of ceremonial magic, apart from being a way to modify my reality its also a hobby. You really can go very minimal with your workings if you want/need to.

Hello- I thought I had about “how big does the circle need to be” (which might be implied in what Soundwave wrote, or in your own thoughts after reading above?) -as he mentions part to consider is your “pattern” how you get all your “pieces” to work together (how you conceive of the steps of your Workings, the incantations you use, tools and their qualities- or no tools)

     All of those (both the what of each, and the say colors, measurements, thus #s could correspond to a system, or you could figure isn't important)

, but I agree with A. Crowley when he writes if you decide an aspect isn’t important to consider in to the Pattern, there should be a reason in the Pattern why it isn’t: In other words, you could have a reason for the size of the circle (see below how that can fit), or figure the size, and/or direction to face etc. Isn’t important, BUT the reason why it isn’t important is that XYZ are elements to focus on, and ABC aren’t as XYZ are sort of a complete-whole, and ABC don’t contradict any of that
(I hope that makes some sense).

So short- a good way to figure minimum size, as in your post you mention you have in mind certain requirements of your’s (wanting to sit comfortably- thus seat your self and then figure a bit larger than that, say take a rope or some string and size out a circle… then measure that… that would be tight)- you’d likely want to be able to stand, but perhaps turn and face different directions without having to shuffle your feet in place… If you have to take a step when you turn comfortably, then the circle’d need to be big enough to do so (thus the “mock-out size” via rope or string or such)

 Also- not needed in the first go around.. but if you wanted to have candles inside the circle.. then that changes things, eh?  but the key is going in the opposite dir: at least bigger then say a fist distance away from your outline on the ground... and yet smaller than the amount of space you have.

(if you have directions to create a 9ft circle, and you don’t have 3ft of space, clearly that isn’t usefully directions at this time- and I agree it isn’t required or the only way, although following a system in all its parts can be helpful for the resonance.)

So to example above, if you decide that say candles should go in all 4 directions? or just in "front’ of you (then how many candles 1, 2, 3?)- and which direction facing? and candles inside circle, ontop of (upon it), or outside of it-on the ground, vs outside of circle say on the wall. These could look different, and affect your layout (and if inside the circle, clearly you’d need it bigger, to give you space to not have candle near on you)… but rather than just choose one…

over time (not all at once, and not before you can begin anything)- but over time, to have a sense of ah the tools I include have certain qualities and all those qualities are significance (as Soundwave mentions QBL can use size of say 9ft and thus number 9 related to certain qualities, the sphere of… etc. but instead of 9ft it could 9 units of 8inches (rather than 12 inches)- and thus a smaller/different result (and you might find that 8inch units makes more sense… etc)
or if you figure the size of the circle, and its number, isn’t the issue- why? what arises? (perhaps the size relates to your own form, not just for practical sizing, but as it is a personal-sphere, etc. but then what are the implications of that- especially relating to other tools and the steps of Working.
Thus over time you can “gel” and see- ah I use these Words of Incantation, and the way I pronounce, the thoughts I have as I say, and why I say them then, vs steps done before or after, relates to the overall-Pattern that includes how I laid out the Working Space (Circle Size, how it is marked out, Triangle and how you see that… also if you see circle and/or triangle as “protection” vs “focusing” vs collecting-capacitor… each of those three change alot how you’d use, how the rest of your Steps work (and thus how you may form them, and what else you might need, or not need, in your space. etc.)

Even impacts how you might see Preparation and Afterward- (what do before and afterward, as a result of how you see the “during” fit together)… all potential in aspects of the laying out the space (so again, not need to get stuck on, but as a part of going over, and reasoning it through- getting the “working system” and “prep Immersion” can inspire tweaks and slight modifications that may fine-tune (and see how they work per results).

I hope that provokes some percolating and clicks- luck in your practice

“also if you see circle and/or triangle as “protection” vs “focusing” vs collecting-capacitor… each of those three change alot how you’d use, how the rest of your Steps work (and thus how you may form them, and what else you might need, or not need, in your space. etc.)”

WOW…you guys are both blowing me away! Taokua, the above quoted is very important to me. Part of my personal journey as a human being I believe is to move completely away from fear in ALL of its horrid manifestations. With that being said, I see the Triangle & Circle as constructs for focusing my attention, NOT for protection. If I’m going into ritual and inviting a quest into my sacred space…what do I need "protection’ from? I feel that this kind of mind-set is already setting my subconscious mind up to ATTRACT fear…and fail. And yes, your input has started me to percolate & click!

Soundwave, thank again for sharing my friend. I too have a portable artist easel!!! I usually set mine up in front of me when painting sigils. I usually meditate to a very deep state, then, when feeling ready I can slowly open my eyes whilst still in an absorption state and start my work easel, ink, and nib all laid out in front.

Well, I still have some more research and work to do. i shall keep everyone posted!

Thanks again!

Mode_439

I just had two quick thoughts- the artist-easel as altar/focus is neat as if you move it about the room, face different directions and yet move the easel with you: you sort of are in a different place, but you move the “spot” in a sense (thus the associated charge of that working space).
(same can be done with a mat as a seat (either on the floor, or upon a chair)- thus develop a charge where you seat, but “rollup” the mat when not using and/or can move it- “the meditation spot” )

Second idea- relating to Triangles/circles (and all shapes used, whether 2d -gons and -grams, ie septagon vs septagram (2kinds) or hexagon, hexagram; or whether 3d ~platonic solids, tetrahedron, or the often pyra-mid)

each has a resonance to the shape (and else resonates to it, and thus e-drives the shapes = charging boost), can be like an antennae (like sigil lines can also resonate, and thus link up)... so in that way if see a Circle (within-without the circle, vs seeing "around and around" the circle: how does the energy move? what is that resulting?)

Info burst- but I look forwards to seeing/reading what Mode_439 and Soundwave are working with- luck

ps Have either of you read R Kirk Packwood’s titles? (Memetic Magic is something) and/or Jan Fries -both magickal, not the usual recycled, and are very artistic in slant (even “evoke” via aut~freeflow drawing) just a though

I’ve put both those authors on my reading list!

only thing you need is chalk eh I use chalk for circle and triangle,when my job is finished I clean it. simple ^^

Shit!!! I just took pics for you all of my easel, Zafu, Support Cushion, and Zabuton (cushions) and I want to share them with you all so you can actual see what I’m using. Guys, I’m having a hell of a time with the Add photo/video feature on this forum. I usually just pull the pics from my computer. Suggestions? I don’t use/have a photo bucket account.

Anyways, regarding “Memetic Magic”…R. Kirk Packwood FUCCCCCKKKK I want that book so bad!!! That’s been on my wish list forever. What an incredible proposal! I’m fascinated by literally hacking into the physical meme of humanity!!! Interesting proposal to say the least.

Jan Fries - I really want NightShades & his Kali Kaula texts!

I wish he/they would re-print ALL his books man. The existing copies that are on the planet now are so very expensive. For me, I always like to actual buy the physical book 1st…you know support the author/artist first and all that. I really don’t like electronic copies of anything if I can help it, only because for me their is nothing like the intimate feel of a sacred text in ones
hands.

taokua:

"Second idea- relating to Triangles/circles (and all shapes used, whether 2d -gons and -grams, ie septagon vs septagram (2kinds) or hexagon, hexagram; or whether 3d ~platonic solids, tetrahedron, or the often pyra-mid)

each has a resonance to the shape (and else resonates to it, and thus e-drives the shapes = charging boost), can be like an antennae (like sigil lines can also resonate, and thus link up)... so in that way if see a Circle (within-without the circle, vs seeing "around and around" the circle: how does the energy move? what is that resulting?)"

Whoa dude…now this is something to consider. The energy & resonance associated with different shapes for Evocation. That’s fucking heavy!!! What if we could associate…mmmmm…let’s say an Entities attributes whatever they may be, AND, the EVOCATOR’S attributes? Maybe based on what one’s will/intent is:

A number, shape, resonance and/or frequency, material to then make the evocator’s "circle’ or whatever shape he/she wants, then the entities “triangle” or whatever shape that would be thus associated with the entity???

taokua…I like that “info burst”!!! I think I’m having one of those now since I’m completely wired for sound after all the coffee I just drank!

Meditation cushion supplies:

  1. http://www.sunandmoonoriginals.com/
    My absolute #1 place to go to. Over the past 15yrs, I’ve bought several products. Great people, prices, and products! No, I’m not a paid spokesperson :slight_smile:

  2. http://www.samadhicushions.com/
    My number # 2.

  3. *notes: if you have a tight budget…always go “economy” Zafu (round cushion) & Zabuton set (large square cushion for supporting your knees & Zafu).

As far as comfort I personally like kapok as opposed to buckwheat. Buckwheat tends to be a little hard for one’s backside.

hope this helps!!! Be well all

I’ve been looking for a good book on tantra for occultists and Kali Kaula looks excellent. Thanks taokua!

I agree with Soundwave as far as very simple. I use black cloth with a white circle (around 6’) and a white triangle (2-3’). The cloth is black canvas, I picked it to lay flat and to take the white acrylic paint I used. My circle is big enough for two operators to sit side by side, along with a small altar, candles, dagger, sword, chalice, extra incense, candles, etc.

As taokua said, unless there is a significance to you or the tradition you’re inheriting to have a specific size, you just make the size of circle you need. If you are working by yourself, you could probably use a 3’ circle and 1’ triangle with no issues. If you are doing a massive group ritual in a large space or outdoors, you might need a 30’ circle and many triangles. Eventually, you may need no circle and no triangle. You can also evoke with just a scrying mirror/bowl/surface. The circle and triangle are tools for you as the operator. You make them do what you need them to do.

As far as cushions, my wife went on etsy and ordered so DIY cushions - I think they were $10 each, for just the cover. Then she filled them with some pinto beans - they work very well.

Thanks all!!!

draks sent me a PM about a photographers drape ($30 bones)…I think I may go out & about to actually see this, as well as bedsheets.

BTW, my copy of The Book of Azazel just came whilst I was writing this!!! Hmmmmmm…Magick really does work :slight_smile:

Thanks to Gozer as well!

In reference to "tools" and set-up of a balanced (and activated...) WorkingSpace: also the Resonance of Shape (not just the apparent representation.. but the affect- consider:

‘gross-lvl’ the eye <cones&rods> assemble in the optic nerve as a shape… that pattern as a whole ~a vib-tone… have a square and gaze at… turn 45degrees “diamond” (same shape? but affect? appears only perception, but relative- up-down and L-R per our perceiving structure;
‘subtler-lvl’ is ‘shape’ the way we translate something else, can we capture in form (in a 'Structuring") some thing that orients and affects a space, affects/re-orients a mind perceiving that Structuring… or…

[quote=“Mode_439, post:10, topic:964”]What if we could associate…mmmmm…let’s say an Entities attributes whatever they may be, AND, the EVOCATOR’S attributes? Maybe based on what one’s will/intent is:

A number, shape, resonance and/or frequency, material to then make the evocator’s "circle’ or whatever shape he/she wants, then the entities “triangle” or whatever shape that would be thus associated with the entity???[/quote]

Key of course to break down this (any) foundational-basis and simplify to an ‘exercise’ if do XYZ… then… and see what happens (simple enough, then layer- how does it work in actual doing?)… which then can refine what you are actually dealing with, and come to actually SEE how to simply that (refining the ‘exercise’ to try and test…) etc.
For ex. the above shapes, and what within that space, or perceiving it from without: A) look at else, B) stand within C) stand withing 1 while looking at a 2nd else… relation between… different shapes? (so tempting to collapse the possibilities and unclarity… freedom? to charts or generalizations… rather than just clip off an edge, explore from the known to that ‘edge’) -each one within a purpose, and “type” of Working (which facility are you using? What is being targeted, how? what targeting method and support for? )

and how to narrow in to an aspect to test-explore, in the most concrete way (and yet each cycling-rep, not asking the same question, but developing clarity.. and still overall WorkingModels arise, but periodically test/re-test those, even if they are working..   as Peter Carroll writes, come up with Alternative explanations with work-within (even, or especially, if the existing one's work)..    [Feldenkrais models that one can't "freely" do an action unless you have 3, or more, different ways to achieve the same result; and finer distinctions reveal more of what is there.]

<having spent evening visiting and helping my Grandparents, I seem to have stirred/sparked something, so trying to see if inquiry might be potential… hope this might reach someone that gets something from it- cheers>