Traditional evocation

[Ostanes]

Is this true that “In traditional evocation methods we won’t need to achieve trance, we won’t need to develope astral senses (scrying).”

That means “all instruments and secret insences makes an usual person into a Master Magician” temporarily.

[anon39079500]

@Ostanes

makes an usual person into a Master Magician” temporarily.

Nope. Not even close. If they believe that, they’re fooling themselves, in my opinion.

You don’t need senses for a petition, but it helps to know if it was accepted. Same thing here.

Any state out of the ordinary is a trance.

I don’t know what the source is for this material but I wouldn’t blindly put my trust in it. Could be a language barrier or translation issue, I guess.

[Mulberry]

@Ostanes

Is this true that “In traditional evocation methods we won’t need to achieve trance, we won’t need to develope astral senses (scrying).”

If you don’t get into the state where you can receive subconscious messages from the entity, you’ll evoke it, but you won’t know it. As Dr Skinner puts it, the being could be jumping up and down going “I’m here I’m here” and you’ll have no idea and you’ll think you failed.

You get out what you put in.

[DarkestKnight]

@Ostanes

“In traditional evocation methods we won’t need to achieve trance, we won’t need to develope astral senses (scrying).”

Here’s the thing. In “traditional evocation” it only looks like they don’t need to achieve trance because the entire ritual is designed to put them into an altered state. In other words, they don’t have to perform a specific exercise for trance; everything they do, from the purification and prayers, to the orations and conjurations, brings them there.