To all Saturnian devotees

Saturn as Kronos eats his children. Interesting that when you translate this thread into Transactional Analysis terms. :thinking:

I’ll lock it for a day, people please me if you want to add something.


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I am the one, I am the highest God, lets try to solve this internet problem - Average Lhp magician

Ever since I heard that Dragon Rouge is in debt, (1 day ago), I started to not take kindly these ego games.

Whereas in their teachings they were talking about recreating the universe :man_shrugging:


There was a lodge I came across that was specifically Saturn related, and worshipped Saturn. Cant recall the name of it however. Aso, all the info I came across tregarding ONA was that they are assumed to be a neo nazi organization. Im wondering why.

Brotherhood of Fire and Ice came to mind.

This thread was…violent lol

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Much of what you’re saying is very familiar to me. even the way you’re phrasing. Have you ever read the interview between Matilda the Air Force soldier and Ayril (sp?)?

It’s claimed to be actual released transcripts from Area 51. Every time I find a video of the transcripts, it’s gone, removed, and I haven’t found another version again yet.

But it’s almost like you were able to (in Ayril’s word via Matildas interpretation) break past your human prison and remember, in part at least, what they call your eternal being. Its an amazing concept if it isn’t just some online hoax.


This would be the Fraternitas Saturni. They were a non-Crowleyan Thelemic order very active in the early part of the 20th century in Germany and surrounding areas. By “non-Crowleyan” I mean that they accepted the tenets of Thelema but didn’t really care for the Crowley worshipping bit. Much of the internal material of the lodge was published in the book “Fire and Ice” by Stephen Flowers, which has been re-released and updated as “The Fraternitas Saturni”. The organization itself has undergone some changes and its now known as Ordo Saturni, they have a website and something of a public presence, but as far as I’m aware there isn’t much online in English. You will fare better if you speak German. They have some interesting ideas about Luciferian Gnosticism, sex magic, and Vampirism (If you see the original 1922 Nosferatu silent film, you will be seeing the work of some of their initiates which explains the Enochian script in some of the props, as well as the similarity in appearance of Orlock to a being called GOTOS who you will learn about in your researches) They were formed by a gentleman named Gregor Gregorius, the magical name of Eugen Grosche, but were forced to go underground and ultimately disintegrated during the post-Weimar era and into WW2.


Thats the one I was trying to think of, thank you.

If you read the book you would know already if it is a good idea to build a shrine for Saturn or not. Everyone’s experience is unique but I agree with the author’s experience and that has been my experience largely.

There is chaos in the universe and there is Saturn. Unless you are a great adept with decades of experience or you have reached the level of working with the planetary spirits in Bardon system you have to be prepared for anything that would come your way, that means you losing everything house, relationships all of them in a second or somebody mugging you and leaving you half-dead (morbid I know but those are Saturn’s ways). According to Bardon the planetary spirits of Saturn fuck even seasoned black magicians up very bad.

But the bastard knows how to get your attention if he wants you to make his bitch, simple.

There used to be a user here who got fucked up seriously bad I think after reading the book and he didn’t feel any remorse after killing some woman through Saturnian magic. He got banned later. The cruelty Saturn shows you would turn you into a cruel sadistic psychopath in all probability unless you can handle the extreme reversals and constant abuse. Or you may think with Saturn on your side you could do anything and get away. With Saturn there is no give and take or being equals, only give and you on your knees.

Good luck.

P.S. all the French words are for emphasis alone.


I have V.K Jehannum’s Falcifarian Sorcery for Beginners, although I haven’t begun to work with it yet. In this e-grimoire Jehannum states that the Saturnian spirits are to be approached as gods, never as equals and it is forbidden to partake in offerings made to Them. I get the impression that this remains the case, no matter how long you work with them.


I ain’t touching this with a 829.78 million mile pole.


Yup in full agreement bud.


I never knew there was a newer addition. Thank you very much.



You have made your point very clear and your approach is a classic and historically approved one.
Take the rough, ascetic path confidently.
To those who provision a proudish self-sufficiency, let them sink in their own childish bravado.


Please do your knowledge could enlighten others


Well, it’s a very risky, harsh and hard path but the grimoire also promises great power and many blessings.
I don’t know which member you are talking about, but we should remember that this forum has alot of users that still are traumatized kids that are angry on their “xtian” parents for being dissapointed on them for not taking a path in life that they approve to. I think Koettings system is pretty cool even though I don’t practice it myself, but many, especially younger people have a hard time understanding that “Become a living god” thing and just dwell in pseudo-astral fantasy worlds bringing nothing in the end but an inflated ego, thinking that they are actual gods (ironically missing out the word “become” and what this means, in “become a living god”). So we should be careful in knowing exactly WHO it was that failed, and why, before we discredit a path.
Saturn is age. I don’t think you have to be an elder to work with Saturn, but I think at least SOME level of maturity is required, which hopefully come as the years pass, so maybe it’s not a path for someone who is like 17 years old.
Also, there are always forces in certain “genres” of magic that is feared by most. Look at all the “light workers” for an instance, many of them don’t dare to pick up a Moldavite because they think it’s too extreme, and recommend others to not go near them. But I use my piece sometimes on a daily basis with no problems what so ever. Some “daemonolaters” (don’t even know wtf that is besides they also work with demons) strictly advice people NOT to approach the Qliphoth because they’re sure it will fuck you up, but still theres many people working those spheres successfully.
I think it all comes down to what you on an individual level are ready to sacrifice for the path you want to explore, and that theres much unneccessary fearmongering that originally came from those who played with fire and got burned. I think that all paths that lead to something of real spiritual value will be hard as hell no matter what.


Azazel is summoned through the seal of Saturn, and that is a force that wants you to approach it as an equal.

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Agree, but everyone’s experience is different. To some Saturn is a good planet that will bestow gifts if you listen to him and please him, and my experience says you can’t reason with the planet. You are always at his mercy, take whatever he gives and don’t demand. Classics say one thing new agey pep talk says totally different but what works for you is good enough for your level of your development. One thing is Saturn humbles any practitioner, if someone is getting ahead on the path of working with Saturn very quickly and with little effort, either the system followed is dubious or the practitioner is gifted, one of them is true for sure.

Yes, every path leads to some truth which is part of bigger truth and no one can claim their path alone is correct and has complete knowledge about the ultimate truth. To me spirituality and magic are no different things, the only question is which path you want to take and how you want to do it, meaning through cook books or through trial and error carving out your own path.