Just my thoughts on practices such as Evocation, various methods of projection, and other practices involving seeing and hearing spirits generally. Such experiences from occultists tend to be very contradictory from others at times, and usually others may say the spirit that appeared is a parasite/imposter, or that the information received is symbolic. That could definitely be true but it’s also worth asking whether such practices are always reliable in themselves. For some people going through such experiences, especially if they are very negative, when you look at the experience and thought pattern in a sense, you will see the same or very similar experiences outside of Religion and the Occult, particularly from conspiracy theorists (especially), and people with certain various forms of anxiety disorders as an example.
With drug use, similar experiences can be had that are not definitely not reliable, mostly because drugs purposefully affect certain functions of the brain, and the brain is very capable of emulating such experiences, even outside of drug use (Some people essentially train their brains to constantly have the affect of hallucinogenics but without experiencing effects that other parts of the brain govern, such as paranoia). Of course, evocation and other experiences can feel extremely real, even more real than what you experience going through day-to-day life since you tend to be more aware, but various mundane experiences can feel the same, such as the drug use and tricking the brain into thinking an event is happening. I think many who deal with anxiety and OCD can say how real a false health crisis can feel at times as well, and how the brain can trick you into some very weird realistic feeling sensory experiences. The brain is fully capable of producing all kinds of experiences since our entire experience of reality is experiences through the brain, and our experience would not at all be the same without the brain’s structure since consciousness itself as actually on a very base level. Closing your eyes and imagining a landscape and walking through it can also begin to feel extremely real if you let everything become automatic, but the tiniest amount of power uses at the very back of your mind can direct the entire experience. The brain can do a lot even though it feels like you’re not the one controlling the experience.
Of course, I’m not trying to say anyone’s experience is “false” and no doubt much of it is real, and all these practices can be reliable without a doubt, but I think it can be worth it to bring up such questions, and just observing and analyzing one’s experiences. I’ve had quite a few times where my anxiety made me feel like an astral parasite was attacking me when there was nothing and nothing came of the situation, as well as plenty of other occult experiences that were probably false. So it can be good to just keep an open mind about things, and of course do test the practices.
All im gonna say is unwillingness to question yourself is a pretty good sign of insecurity and the possibility something is flimsy because it can’t hold up to scrutiny
Very true. It’s almost like asking a question with divination twice because you didn’t like the first answer. But truth is truth, whether you can face it or not. Of course, everything should be questioned to find that truth, and everything should be tested. Whether you have the strength to face truth does not change anything.
I agree with all of what you say and the context and nature of your questions. I would add, however, that the thing that ultimately differentiates my experiences from the conditions that you
mention are results, and I have had to work hard at forcing myself to keep my results, the endgame, in my view.
Ultimately, if I ask for someone who’s done me wrong to feel infested with parasites and I hear through the grapevine that they haven’t shown up to work in a week and have checked into a hospital and are seeing a psychiatrist, I don’t care whether the eyes with purple lights in the scrying mirror were Leraje or my imagination. In reality, the image was probably both.
I asked, and I received.
I also know that many, on this site and elsewhere, turn to spirits for more than just results in the material world. I suppose that gets more complicated.
There’s a thin line between the world of the occult / mysticism and that of self delusion, even insanity, that’s for sure. In some cases, such as with the Aghoris of India, that line is crossed.
The biological basis for religion, genius, artistic inspiration, the occult and mysticism may all be the same, in the form of the Kundalini mechanism, as well as the pineal gland, which secretes DMT if properly stimulated.
In essence, all these experiences are subjective, but the biological basis for them has not been studied comprehensively, which is a major omission
I like your approach, I am similar. Of course people will get results, and again I am not saying that anyone’s experiences are false, but the thing with evocation in that manner is that when you gaze into a mirror for long enough, your brain forces an experience like that whether a true evocation has been accomplished or not, which makes it a bit shakey, but naturally the spirit will hear your request, whether it was a true spirit in the mirror or not, so when it comes to results it’s nothing to worry about. So I like your approach to it.
Of course it is also a possibility. But from experience I’ve had plenty of moments that suggested that a spirit was completely independent of my consciousness. I used to think it may be completely all you, but with experience it genuinely seemed to point away from that. But naturally it is a possibility, especially the further the theory goes.
If it’s all me, then I won’t see the results of the request I’m making. If the spirit’s involved and it agrees to act for me- I’ll see “something” shift/ change/ etc…
I should preface all of this by saying that I usually don’t ask for something unless I need it- and if I need it and I don’t yet have it, it means I’ve tried to get it and couldn’t.
So…if I know I can’t make something happen on my own and it happens after a ritual, you tell me?
There’s a lot of theories that go very far. Such as that the entire outside world is just part of one’s mind essentially, that nothing is truly “real”. That was why I said it is a possibility, since there will always be some extreme theory that is simply impossible to ‘disprove’, but they are impossible to prove as well. All these things are just ideas. I guess that’s in part the nature of the Occult. But I tend to move away from various ideas of everything being in the mind, since with many of those (that state beliefs and emotions control reality) if they were true things would have been pretty fucked up for me.
The other thing to remember is that evocation to the physical plane is hard to pull off consistently. Evocation to the astral is a different story. Train those senses and everything changes. Evocation gets a lot easier and communication a lot clearer
Perhaps the thing your contacting in your ritual is an aspect of the self buried deep within your subconscious mind and it just so happens to be a hidden or latent power that gives you the results you’re looking for.
The reason an aspect of the self appears as an autonomous being when you evoke it, soul travel to it or whatever is because your subconscious is constantly compiling data on a daily basis and you’re not even aware of the majority of data it has collected so when you come into contact with it, it seems alien to you.
The point of working with the goetia and systems like it is so you can bring these hidden aspects of the self buried within your subconscious into consciousness. By bringing them into consciousness you’re able to achieve things that are beyond your ability.
I do not discount that at all! You might be spot on!
Soooo, big picture, if making contact to a fictitious spirit, OR, if the spirit isn’t fictitious but I’m conjuring it all out of some aspect of myself and I’m not really making contact with anything, but the result still comes about, I get what I want when before I couldn’t…right?
That is a win for me. I am open to that too- believe me.
But, having said all of that, I’ve seen and experienced too much to doubt!!
I was just spouting off some Luciferian psychobabble.
From what I have seen it really boils down to whatever works for you. If you’re new I’d keep an open mind. Find something that gives you the results you need. It doesn’t matter if it’s all you or not you at all. If the results are good then I suggest sticking with it.