The Ultimate Grimoire

General Discussion
41

Don’t assume shit about me. I’m still waiting for a proper response to my question;
Why do you think “Satan” is just a title and not a real entity?

Books aren’t useless. They should be a general basic guide. They give you foundation then allow you to flourish. An “ultimate grimoire” takes away from the magician’s need to learn from the spirits themselves and not rely on others. You seem to just be lazy and want others to do all the work so you can benefit from their hard won knowledge. If you want such a grimoire, evoke Lucifer yourself. Don’t push it off onto some “veteran”, do it yourself.

42

Agreed
In order to progress one must learn from spirits. Books are just the keys to open the doors to the unknown. Without practice then what is the point. Well put Euoi!!

43

You say Satan is a real entity. I said this is not possible because Satan is a term for an opposing God to another (“Satan”= “Adversary”). So which is it? Loki? Ea? Lucifer (in Christianity)? You’re essentially saying “the bad guy in every religion”.

I'm still waiting for a proper response to my question; Why do you think "Satan" is just a title and not a real entity?

I have and just did again. Its a term used to describe an opposing (or enemy) God.

Books aren't useless. They should be a general basic guide. They give you foundation then allow you to flourish.

That’s the whole point of this book idea. That’s what every magick book is. Its a tool which displays knowledge and information for you to use on your own and use how you wish.

An "ultimate grimoire" takes away from the magician's need to learn from the spirits themselves and not rely on others.

That’s not what this is about. It would merely have writings by the demons. If anything it would encourage readers to evoke the spirits themselves and establish a relationship to reach spiritual liberation. And it can be for new people who need a starting point. Hence a type of bible.

You seem to just be lazy and want others to do all the work so you can benefit from their hard won knowledge.

What a load of horseshit. I made the thread because of this concept/idea and to see what people think about it. You’re the only one who copped an attitude and started acting all high and mighty for no real reason.

Oh and first you tell me not to assume anything about you then you turn around and do the exact same thing. Hypocrite.

If you want such a grimoire, evoke Lucifer yourself. Don't push it off onto some "veteran", do it yourself.

I’m not “pushing it off” on anyone. I just said “what’s everyone think about this idea and could it work?”.

44

-.-
Satan means Adversary. True. THAT DOESN’T PROVE ANYTHING. So many other demon names are on fact just titles. Belial means “Without Worth”. Samael means “Poisoner of God”. Michael means “Who is like God”.
I’m basing my facts off of REAL experience. I’ve experienced Satan, he is s real entity. Can you say the same? Have you called Satan and gotten a random opposing deity?
No, you haven’t.

As for everything else you’ve said, I’m not bring hypocritical. It’s pretty damn clear you don’t want to do this yourself. Even when you told, you complained about “bad writing skills”. Get off your ass and do some work.

45

[quote=“Euoi, post:44, topic:3706”]-.-
Satan means Adversary. True. THAT DOESN’T PROVE ANYTHING. So many other demon names are on fact just titles. Belial means “Without Worth”. Samael means “Poisoner of God”. Michael means “Who is like God”.[/quote]

Something interesting I read: western tourists who want to objectify sex workers in Asia will commonly ask what their name “means” - hoping to hear things like, “white lotus” or “soft rain” - forgetting their own name Bill Smith could mean a piece of paper meaning a payment owed by a guy who makes horseshoes, or if it’s Mark Brown, an actual skidmark.

We all have names that are derived from a source that wasn’t the uniqueness we like to ascribe to our own personality - but when it’s us, it’s just “who we are” - good old Billy, Mark’s a nice guy.

He’s not “a mark” or “a bill” - it’s an honorific title, not something that defines and therefore limits.

For people we want to dehumanise in order to totally disregard their experience, their needs and hopes, we want a label, not a name - it makes it easier. And when it comes to spirits, we take that shit even further, no matter what our origins or human social claptrap.

Maybe they’re just called that?

Maybe it can’t be desconstructed so you can make them not matter, and turn them into a quantifiable commodity?

46

[quote=“Euoi, post:44, topic:3706”]-.-
Satan means Adversary. True. THAT DOESN’T PROVE ANYTHING.[/quote]

Neither is saying Satan is a real entity.

So many other demon names are on fact just titles. Belial means "Without Worth". Samael means "Poisoner of God". Michael means "Who is like God".

Yes I know. So who is this Adversary? You’re using a general term to describe a single entity. Which is like saying The Occult describes a specific path or religion. So please explain either here or in a PM instead of throwing a tantrum while also misunderstanding the original idea of the book.

I'm basing my facts off of REAL experience. I've experienced Satan, he is s real entity.

“That doesn’t prove anything.”

Can you say the same? Have you called Satan and gotten a random opposing deity?

Why would I call an entity I clearly do not think is real?

No, you haven't.

Evidently.

As for everything else you've said, I'm not bring hypocritical.

I just pointed out how you are in the last post. To just outright go “NUH UH” is childish.

It's pretty damn clear you don't want to do this yourself.

Do what myself? Write a book?

Even when you told, you complained about "bad writing skills".

I never said anything of that sort. I said I’ve never written a book before and as such I have no experience in that field.

Get off your ass and do some work.

Once again being a hypocrite. What gives you the assumption I’m not “doing some work” and where the FUCK do you get off telling me what to do?

Sorry this went off topic to other posters. Feel free to give your thoughts on this concept.

47

I think if you want a grimoire about entities by entities then you might do well to channel it yourself, just because other people are busy enough hoeing their own row, so to speak.

I also have various theories about reality bubbles and personal destinies, which all clumped together mean that not everyone’s truth is the same, which could explain that why even the alleged “one true god” couldn’t get its worshippers to agree on anything, ever, for very long.

Finally, I think that while emotions get understandably heated on these kinds of topics, constructive debate can be closed down when people make the debate about another person’s perceived flaws and not the topic itself. :wink:

48

Who is this Adversary?
Well, then who is this “Without Worth”? That’s what Belial’s name means. I’m sure there are many figures that could fit into that. So, when I say Belial, am I referring to the ex husband who couldn’t keep a job, support his family, and cheated constantly on his wife? Surely he fits the title “Without Worth”.
Lucifer means “Light Bearer”. There are many of those. So what, is Prometheus Lucifer? Is z Lucifer just s title?
That is your argument and your logic. It makes no sense.
Try to explain Lucifer, or Belial. Who are they?

I’m not throwing a tantrum. I am irritated with your ignorance and clinging to beliefs which you have no basis for.

49

I think if you want a grimoire about entities by entities then you might do well to channel it yourself, just because other people are busy enough hoeing their own row, so to speak.

I also have various theories about reality bubbles and personal destinies, which all clumped together mean that not everyone’s truth is the same, which could explain that why even the alleged “one true god” couldn’t get its worshippers to agree on anything, ever, for very long.

Finally, I think that while emotions get understandably heated on these kinds of topics, constructive debate can be closed down when people make the debate about another person’s perceived flaws and not the topic itself. ;)[/quote]

Good criticism. Thank you. You’re becoming my favorite poster here.

[quote=“Euoi, post:48, topic:3706”]Who is this Adversary?
Well, then who is this “Without Worth”? That’s what Belial’s name means. I’m sure there are many figures that could fit into that. So, when I say Belial, am I referring to the ex husband who couldn’t keep a job, support his family, and cheated constantly on his wife? Surely he fits the title “Without Worth”.
Lucifer means “Light Bearer”. There are many of those. So what, is Prometheus Lucifer? Is z Lucifer just s title?
That is your argument and your logic. It makes no sense.
Try to explain Lucifer, or Belial. Who are they?[/quote]

Lucifer actually means “Star”. Venus has also been called Lucifer. Even Jesus at one point was called Lucifer.

You’re also dodging my question. Who is Satan? Which one is he? Again; you’re using a general term for opposing Gods to describe a single entity. Like I said before, this is like using “the occult” to describe this single path or religion.

I'm not throwing a tantrum. I am irritated with your ignorance and clinging to beliefs which you have no basis for.

First of all you copped an attitude out of nowhere when I first started this thread by saying this idea was stupid. Then proceeded to misunderstand what this was about and afterward flip flopped over and over by saying books like this shouldn’t be rule books or guides then followed it up with magick books should be general guides for you to then use on your own. Which is precisely what I said.

Second of all you say I am clinging to beliefs I have no basis for yet you claim Satan is a single (and real) entity and refuse to even say who or what it is and dance around the question again and again. And THEN you say you aren’t a hypocrite.

So since this text war is going nowhere and I am not enjoying this I shall end the argument here by saying I am happy for you that you have Satan in your life (whoever it may be) and I wish you luck. Next time please try to provide criticism like Lady Eva without the arrogant and frankly immature way of posting.

Thanks.

50

Satan is Satan. He isn’t any adversarial God besides himself. That’s likr going into the evocation of Lucifer thread and asking “Which Lucifer did you evoke?”. Frankly, it’s idiotic.
Are you asking for a description of his personality and what he rules or what he does? Pm me if you want that.
You’re totally wrong. My experiences completely contradict you. And you have zero basis for your beliefs.

I’m not going to change the way I post because you don’t like it. That’s your problem.

51

Now you’re just acting like a typical Christian.

But yes I would like to take this to PM so you can explain this Satan clearly without this pointless bickering back and forth.

52

Lol chill Euoi it is just a chat site. I think satan is a word and not a name. Advesary, my basis being there are to many satans out there satan is lucifer satan is enki satan is ect the list is long and to many views on if satan is the iner you or an entity. Just my opinion

53

Yah, no. Satan is a singular entity. Almost all names are really just words that mean something in some language.
Call on Satan yourself, don’t take my word for it. THAT is the true proof; experience.