I think you’re absolutely right about that.
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I fully expect external factors to the matter at hand to go completely haywire, if that is what you mean.
In fact, i am counting on quite a bit of chaos, the more the better. People will be getting hurt anyway, even if nothing unpredictable were to happen. As long as my goal is reached, i care little for collateral damage, as bad as that sounds.
Could you elaborate a little on what you meant? Do you perhaps have any annecdotes to share?
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I meant exactly that, but if you are expecting chaos then go for it.
Just bear in mind that if the targets are somehow related to you, or near you, the unwanted effects might affect you directly or indirectly. (I’m not talking about karma or the three-fold law wiccan BS, just natural cause and effect).
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I also thought of the energies being in conflict with one another, but I believe in this instance it may be fine as I’m assuming that they are all Demons of the Goetia. In that case they would likely know that other spirits are involved in the situation, while perhaps calling upon, say, elementals, all kinds of spirits of the land, various deities and so on may cause some conflict in the situation.
As with talismans, it’s generally not recommended to wear an Astrological Talisman and a Non-Astrological Talisman for that exact reason.
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You are correct. I was once nudged towards the book “demons of magick”, where i found the relevant information on the spirits i need, as well as a method on how to relay a petition. I hope it will all work out.
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Didn’t know that. Thanks.
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It is not always like that of course, but it can be good to do divination beforehand to check if the energies do not conflict. So wearing a Feng Shui talisman/Gamahe does not always conflict with an Astrological one.
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Without wanting to bump my own thread, does anyone have any advice or instructions regarding methodology?
I wonder about Solomonic planetary talismans. Would they conflict?
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It is best to do divination on it, as Astrological Talismans also tend to work in a somewhat unique way depending on the individual. Most striking is depending on whether or not the Planet of the Talisman is Afflicted or well-dignfinied in the Natal Chary, but the Talisman also seems to very slightly affect the House Placement and Aspects of the Planet. So for that reason, I’d say doing divination to see if they conflict is best.
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Spirits ride the current the mage gives them, and the mage rides the current of the spirits. Now, if you’re working with 30 demons all at once to bomb your target goal with magic, you’re getting about 1/30th of the normal efficiency, when your previous attempt didn’t even work at all.
Some entities work very well with each other, but those are for specific reasons and under specific circumstances. When you go through a grimoire and pick out literally every spirit you can use, your magic becomes literal gibberish on the spirit planes. Imagine asking a lawyer, a doctor, a soldier, a mathematician, a psychologist, and a seer to help you accomplish (xyz task… a money spell, for example), all at once. Adding random components to a system doesn’t make it more powerful. It overcomplicates things at best, and at worst, causes unstable fissions and damaging explosions. Normally though, it just breaks your whole system into non-functionality.
Those who know me personally will know that I’m not a fan of “petition spells”. This is the reason why. People with no experience just try to throw as many entities at an issue as possible, and even more experienced once will leave up most of the actual work to an entity without much real effort on their end. It’s mostly a fault of misunderstood teachings and workings from others I think, but I try to teach people the ability to learn how to wield forces, or wield spirits, rather than learn how to ask them to do things for you. Think of the spirit you’re using like it’s a medium through which your own power moves, which can actively accelerate your power along with the entities as you work together. Sort of like wielding a sword; you can’t cut things with your bare hands, but the sword can’t cut with no hands to hold it. So, pick one that suits your goal or maybe 3 at most if you see that they work together in a meaningful and coherent manner… to learn how to wield as a medium for your magic and command them as extensions of your power instead of just “petitioning”. You’ll see much more long term advancement and skillset development that way.
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I understand where you are coming from. I dont plan on piling up spirits on top of one another, i can why it looks like that from the way i worded things.
My problem is that there is a LOT to be done, on multiple targets, that ranges far beyond the specialties listed under a single spirit. I see what you mean, and i will try my best to whittle down my list to “one entity per task”. The problem is, that still leaves a lot of entities for a lot of tasks. But i am confident that i can get the number quite low if i try to.
To be clear, my goal was not to have different entities focusing on the same task and/or the same target. Everyone had their own job, and angle.
I understand what you mean by learning how to use ones own power instead of becoming reliant, that is my end goal. Unfortunately, in the short term, regarding a matter so pressing, i will have to leave my future development aside for now.
That being said, in the now, is there anything regarding weilding demons -or anything else for that matter- that you can tell me?
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There is one detail i would like to clarify.
Do demons depend on the power of the caster? Or do they use their own inherent power to work?
If both, how much can they do “on their own”, without getting much from the caster?
I was always under the impression that petitions were advised for beginner use as a beginner would not need any power of his own to use them.
Petitions are fine. They are a traditional form of magick and have been around forever because they work.
However, they are generally done to a single spirit or family of spirits, not 30 individual names all at once. For example, for a curse, you would do a petition to the “spirits of the underworld,” or to change the weather you would call upon the “spirits of Air.”
For a layered working, with each spirit attacking a different part of the whole leading to the final result, you would be better served with multiple petitions, one for each spirit, than trying to shove them all into one.
Generally they do the work on their own, using their own inherent power, but they are also connected to the energy of the magician that calls them to move in his life which is why it is possible for one’s doubt or anxiety over the result to interfere.
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That is a very good answer.
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Layered work is indeed what i was going for.
I was hoping to build “groups” that would be assigned to different tasks, with each member of the group, according to their specialty, focusing on a specific aspect of the task.
Does this sound like it would be…
Or am i doing things the right way?
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I think you are over complicating things. Petitions work best when they are simple, and direct.
If you want to form “working groups” for each part of your task, then you are moving beyond what a petition spell can do, and more into concurrent evocation, where you evoke multiple spirits at the same time, and give them each a task leading to the larger goal.
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Ah, i see.
If i may ask, how does concurrent evocation differ from layered petitioning?
From what i understand, layered petitions are simple tasks that the spirits in question “just do” together, whereas concurrent evocation implies the spirits performing their assigned tasks specifically with the a final goal in mind that goes beyond the simple task that they were requested to perform.
Did i get it right?
The best example of concurrent evocation I can give is EA Koetting’s Evocation of the 9 in his book Baneful Magick. It is a perfect example. Nine separate entities are evoked together to bring death to a target, and each of the spirits will go about the task according to their own specialty. Some will bring illness, others will cause accidents, etc.
With layering, you don’t generally send the spirits out all at once, but take each step separately, usually over the course of a week or more, so that each layer builds upon the previous work.
When evoked in groups, the spirits will generally go about their business as if the other spirits were not involved at all. They don’t automatically “work together” like it’s a group project, but strive separately to accomplish the same goal.
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I see, forgive me for not really understanding, but if during concurrent evocation, the spirits go around doing their thing regardless of the others, is it not really “teamwork”?
Regarding the work that gets done, what changes compared to layered petitions, where the spirits in question also work solo?
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