The Consequences of Association


#1

In listening to various podcasts, and also in his books, I’ve heard E.A. mention to the effect that what you surround yourself with you eventually become, and that surrounding yourself with dark or sinister spirits is ultimately self destructive, and could cause you or those you love to suffer illness, etc. How does this integrate into the life of one on the Left Hand Path?

Demons don’t attack or negatively influence the black magician because they are allies in darkness, right? We both share the same goal, which is to wield our power as we see fit; to re-shape reality as it pleases us, and bask in the glory of our omnipotence as we watch our will manifest itself. It is the old methods of constraining with certain names/making demands and generally being an ass to the spirit that instigates the stereotypical demonic havoc that working with them brings about, right? Hence, the need for all the prescribed banishings. These at least are the ideas I have gleamed in my relatively new introduction to Koetting’s methods.

I’ve always used energy to bring about the results I desired, but have long felt a burning desire to evoke. I contemplate these things now because I have decided to take that step. Like many, I was raised in a fundamental Christian home. Observing their ways taught me what not to be. I could never bring myself to use Solomonic methods because I just couldn’t force myself to use the names of a deity I feel so aligned against. This is all just my round-about way of telling you how pleased I was when I came across E.A.’s methods which avoid the Judaic flavoring I’ve always found when studying evocation.

I am not a self destructive person, and have no desire to bring unfortunate events and poor health to myself, my wife or my home. I’m confused by the statements E.A. makes at times when it sounds like he is warning of negative consequences of working with demons. And yet, here we all are, doing just that. Is it merely that we are drawn so profusely to wielding the power “that negative consequences be damned?!”

Related to this, how many of you have chosen to not banish after your workings? I do my work in a room not attached to my home, but it is a mere few feet away. For now, I have not banished, but I question this as I certainly can sense the darkness surrounding the room outside, and noticed some creepy-crawlies occasionally; especially as I pass by a window I’ll notice something meandering around my yard. My wife has certainly had more than her fair share of illness recently, and I have pondered whether it would be best for her if I were to clear things out regularly.

Maybe some of this is covered in his other books. I’ve mostly only studied Works of Darkness. This turned out to be a relatively long introduction filled with questions. Pleased to meet you all.


#2

What I have noticed as an effect of a lot of spirit contact is, that my confidence grows with every spirit. My confidence in myself, my ability to master life and all challenges that will come along. Things that used to get me in the past, I feel shielded against. Of course I pick who I align myself with and, until now, I have never regretted my desicions.


#3

if that is the case, then dont work with any demons. there are plenty of entities that you can work with that are not demonic and you can still be left hand path. and always stating when you are speaking to the spirit " without any harm to my loved ones". that is something i always include when i perform an evocation or a spell. and also making sure you burn that sigil after the spirit has come through with the end result.

now that i am thinking e.a. has stated this many times. what are demons? to me demons are nothing more than the banished gods of civilizations that have been taken over by others and have been turned evil through brainwashing generations. as long as u come correct and include no harm to my loved ones the entity should not harm your family. and also i think HOW you view the spirit is important. if you are kind of scared of it cuz it is a very powerful demon and think he or she might hurt you and yours then it is going to pick up on that and maybe do what u think it will do. dont have those negative emotions when you go in and work with them. i think your frame of mind has alot to do with that.


#4

This kind of goes both ways though, unless you actively seek out spirits that are not in alignment with what you already are, usually you will attract spirits that compliment what you are all about. In my case there is only one angel and demon around me, everything else are shades between those two types of energy.


#5

RedIce,
Until now??


#6

Thank you, it does, and I will.

I have noticed a certain confidence accumulating as I work more with the darkness. I had concerns at first, similar to those I voiced earlier. You reach a point though, at least I did, that you simply must do what needs to be done, and any fear or reservations are simply a stumbling blocks to be eradicated. I likened it to part of myself that must be torn down that I may rebuild something better; something stronger.

You mentioned regret. I’m tired of regret. I’ve made decisions in the past, both magickal and otherwise that ended up eating at me for a long time. Now, my approach is different: Delve deep into whatever I’m about to do, and preceding the ritual itself I’ll do a divination to ensure I like the outcome. And that regret? To hell with it.

Also, as Jakob asked, until now?

I wasn’t trying to make a case against working with demons. Just questioning if my understanding of their influence upon the operator was valid.


#7

Well my experiences are more limited than other people here, but I thought I would comment based on what I have heard EA speak about/write about.

EA states that we become liken to that which we surround our selves with… and that is never more evident than with evocation. We connect to that which we have evoked on a psychic level. The more time we spend communing with an individual entity, the more we take on its attributes.

Regardless of whether we evoke angels or demons, our spiritual power grows. We become bright lights that wondering spirits of all types will be attracted to. Some may be just curious, others may want to feed of your energy, others may be malevolent.

EA states there are pros and cons to banishing. If you banish, then you clear the area and wont have much trouble. If you don’t banish, then the area becomes spiritually charged with darkness and all your future rituals and magical operations will be quicker and stronger i.e. spirits evoke faster. EA has instructed DK (another forum user) that if you evoke in a single spare room in your house, then create a shielding the envelops only that room, keeping all the un-banished energy locked within.
But if you can evoke with success already, I can’t see why someone wouldn’t just evoke an entity to protect the area from any other influences with ill intent towards you. There are plenty who do this in grimoires.

The reason people work with demons even when EA states the dangers of it in the same breath is like driving a car. The car will get you where you want to go, its a method among many that works… and works fast. But it would be irresponsible of EA to NOT mention the dangers in driving and to teach you how to do it more safely. But EA IS responsible and honest about all the pros and cons about demonic evocation… its up to us to weigh it all up and decide for our selves.

Anyway, both Dante and EA said you can get to where you want to be in a much safer manner working with the angels… it is slower and more balanced. People work with demons because they are willing to risk all for power, and they want that power sooner rather than later. The demons also don’t question your morality every twist and turn, and can teach and do things for you that the angels never will.

Lastly, in regards to the consequences of association… there are demons who will aid in your ascent and who can influence things in your life for the better, but there are others who just want you to suffer - choose carefully I guess.


#8

^^^ How to distinguish the ones who want to aid in ascent and the ones who want to destroy?? The grimories are only good for a seal and that’s about it. There info on said demons is lacking, 90% of all of them say they know of all things past present & future. Or teach men in science and liberal arts. Well that isn’t the detail I’m looking for. Is there a book out there that goes into great detail on all the higher Demons? and there personalities?


#9

Yes, Evoking Eternity by EA. There are both Angelic and Demonic entities given there who will aid you in your ascent. Excellent book btw :wink:


#10

Jakob420, it was advised to me by EA personally (note this was advised TO ME) to “start not with the powerful grand demons, but other, more tame entities first”(paraphrased).

Work your way up, develop yourself, get strong. At least then you can ask about the grand demons from other entities.

Seeker is right. EA’s grimoires are far better than others Ive read. Summoning spirits is also good, but has no demons in it.

Do you think EA would invest so much time building his empire and promoting beings like Azazel to help us with our ascent, if Azazel would destroy all who summoned him? Wouldn’t make good business sense to do that. Just my opinion, but if your going to trust anyone to safely guide you through demonic workings, trust EA.


#11

Actually it does, it has some goetic demons in it, It’s just that in konstantinos opnion those spirits aren’t demons. But if you ask just about anyone else they would say that they are.


#12

Summoning Spirits is a wonderful book. You will find some very reasonable spirits there. That was one of the books where I began my road to magick. Listen to what Defectron said. You will feel way more at ease with one of them, well that’s what I found anyway. The book will give you an insight on the qualities of the individual spirits as well as what they look like. A very nice book.


#13

Actually it does, it has some goetic demons in it, It’s just that in konstantinos opnion those spirits aren’t demons. But if you ask just about anyone else they would say that they are.[/quote]

Hahaha I knew as I wrote that someone would correct me.


#14

What about Angels? How many are there that have sigils you can find? And should you work with the lesser, or could you summon Michael, Raphael right from the start?? Thanks for the info on the two books mentioned.

Also E.A. has balls of brass, I watched his dixie college seminar on evocation and he said for his first evocation he looked for the most bad ass demon and found Paimon, and dove head first right into it. I on the other hand would not have the confidence to do such a thing right away.


#15

There are a lot of sigils for angels, especially Enochian (if you consider them angels) there’s a sigil for each one of them and there’s an ass ton of Enochian entities.


#16

@ draks :

From my experience, the whole hang up on calling these beings angels or demons seems to be a convince more than anything. They aren’t really anges and demons in the traditional sense. It’s more of of a tool to use for classification. As to the type of energy they have and the means in with they use it. is pretty much a spectrum, some fall into one side or the other drastically, but in general, they fall somewhere in between (some closer to one side or the other). Evoking angelic or demonic entities will briing unexpected activity in your home regardless; you are opening up yourself as a means of communication (that’s the point, isn’t it). I have sepparated my ritual chamber from my house for this reason; my children were experiencing some paranormal stuff. Not that it was negative from working with ‘demons’, but it wasn’t something they weren,t used to; it kind of freaked my son out (7 years old), though my daughter (12 years old) asked me to teach her more about my occult practices because of it.

My end respose to this is that you should continue what you are doing, if anything put up a barrier around your workspace if you feel it is needed.

The line between angels and demons, as the general guidelines go, is thin at best. Yes they emit a different type of energy and fullfill goals through different means, that doesn’t mean that they are all that different, more of a different current of energy than anything. Don’t be discuraged because they are considered demons, its a matter of perspectice.


#17

What kind of strange occurrences in your home? Can you give any specifics? Also how to block off your ritual room, can people become sick, or act on prior addictions?


#18

I’ve been working heavily on my sight and hearing, preparing myself for evocation. Daily scrying sessions, ajna meditations, etc. Its amazing the success you can have with regular and focused intentions. About a week ago after watching the teaser trailer for the divination course I was tempted to drag out my ouija board from my youth. I really felt like a dabbler then. :slight_smile:

Funny thing was, I had huge success with the board. I made contact with a spirit that gave me a name I’d never heard of before. She was a huge pervert though, it was odd. Afterwards, I googled the name I was given and had some amazing external validation when I found other people’s reports of similar things.

Still up to that point, I hadn’t performed any banishings in my home. Over the course of the last week I started having minor things happening that didn’t scare me as much as amused me. A broom flew off the wall where it hangs. A ahem vibrator spontaneously would turn itself on.

Several nights ago, however, was the deciding factor. I was having an unsettling dream that for the life of me I can’t recall, and I woke to my hand covered in blood. Caused by a bloody nose which I never get.

That was enough. I banished and cleared out my house, and all activity has ceased.


#19

my first evocation was of a “higher ranking” daemon. difficult and unpleasant, but successful and amicable by the end. i would advise that there are no “minor” spirits, and if they found out that you started working with them because you thought they were easier to control, they may be just a little insulted. by the same token, they are easier to control, but so is a very powerful daemon who just happens to also be very friendly (azazel is a good example). best to just evoke, say hello and ask them to work with you. if they don’t vibe well, or you’re not sure of your own abilities at that point, just politely dismiss them and work with someone else for however long it takes for you to get comfortable.

and don’t think that working with angels is any less “destructive” :slight_smile:

they tend to be less… hostile i suppose… than daemons, but they will tend to do what’s in your “best interest” whether you like it or not. daemons will only do what they agree to, although you have to be very specific as they will take the path of lease resistance to bring you what you desire. i recently evoked for something quite simple but also very specific. today, it manifested, but it cost me $200. LOL. i certainly got what i wanted, but i didn’t even think to stipulate that it shouldn’t cost me anything. of course, i was free to decline when it ultimately came about, but right now, i have $200 to spend on what i asked for so it’s not too much of a problem. i’m going to evoke the same spirit (with the sigil i used earlier, as a matter of fact) to re-work my terms and requirements.

anyway, back to angels. some of them are friendly enough (the archangels are pretty decent) but some of them (like many of the shem angels) are pretentious assholes. they’ll work with you so far as their office is concerned, but they’ll remind you how inferior we humans are and how we shouldn’t be allowed to decide anything for ourselves (not that i disagree, but i don’t need to be spoken down to). ultimately, angels help with ascent, but ascent by way of elevating one’s vibration to the point that the lower frequencies can’t be easily accessed. daemons vibrate at a frequency much closer to the physical plane, and thus manifest tangible, material results. in order to ascend with daemonic help, it’s up to us to increase our own vibration, which comes with the attainment of power.

in short, a bad experience with a daemon will manifest immediately and life may be very unpleasant for a short time. a bad experience with an angel will manifest in thirty or forty years when you turn around one say and say “shit… this isn’t where i want to be at all!”, but by then you would have wasted thirty or forty years (and everything you could have manifested for yourself in the meantime).

that’s why i work with daemons primarily, but i have respect for the angelic class. if the world is material, i want the power to control it on a material level. the more my physical (earthy) desires are satisfied, the more attention i can pay to effecting my own spiritual evolution.

kind regards, james.


#20

James, can you expound on your statement about Azazel being friendly towards you? i.e. how is he perceived as being friendly?

I have never personally worked with Azazel and am trying to get more of an idea about him outside of what is written. No one seems to go into this kind of detail.

Thanks.