I see. Well in that case anything can be a part of anything, that is if you have the creativity and perception to draw that line, to thence Validate it further as a reality. But speaking of such as a Magickal Technique, I would be careful what sort if associations you draw, because now you must do research in both Azazel and Amaymon consciousness, and experiment to gather how such would manifest magickally. At this point one becomes picky with Symbolic Associations.
I Worked with Lucifer many time, and your Absolutist Behavior, your āāI am the Only oneāā Attitude clearly show that you dont know Who Lucifer is, i didnāt disrespected Lucifer by the way. Lucifer is a Great Being, a Wonderful Being and i can say with certainty that your general Behavior, as well as what you say is Offensive to Lucifer as well to other Being in General, I dont want to be rude, But sometime it is necessary.
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This is what you seemed to say.
I donāt believe them to be the same.
Perhaps you mean that they are a chain of access leading to Mammon?
i.e. Zazel is easier to contact and opens access to Azazel, Azazel then opens access to Amaimon, Amaimon opens access to Mammon, without the tedious Arabic methods.
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no, i said amaymon and zazel are counterparts.
the jews created their own remixed versions of every other nationās spirits, and often colored their view of that spirit through their own prejudices.
hence set, who in upper egypt was the protector of the world against chaos, and anubis, who guided dead souls through the afterlife, combined to become satan, the enemy of gods and men.
or athirat, the consort of el the most high, stopped being the female paragon of beauty and became the astaroth, the foul male demon with bad breath and a malevolent temper.
they are counterparts. the views expressed by humanity do not necessarily reflect the reality of the spirits themselves, and sometimes, you find when you conjure them they come to you in a COMPLETELY different way than they were described to you.
example: beleth is said to be a proud king, but those who have conjured him have found that he takes off his mask and reveals himself to them as a friendly little girl.
itās one of those things.
believe whatever you want. ymmv.
i think of it as they are counterparts with their personalities heavily colored by the biases of the people who called them.
another example: in nigerian ifa, the closest counterpart to set would be elegua elegbara, more specifically his shadow-side eshu. when you check the correspondences and experiences nigerians and cubans (among others) have with eshu and compare them with the experiences jews, egyptians, or americans have with set, satan, seth/sutekh, whatever you want to call it - youāll find NOTHING IN COMMON between them on a superficial level. for one, set in egypt ruled over desert regions while eleggua in nigeria wandered in dense forests with mighty rivers and streams. for another, set was a powerful force of nature activated by wild crocodiles in the nile and sandstorms in libya while nigerians viewed eleggua as a grandfatherly, child-friendly figure fond of playing practical jokes on adults but with a dark side of really naughty and nasty jokes against those of age. the energy behind them is similar (overwhelming warrior power with a chaotic edge), but they have different āfacesā. itās only when you look deeper to the source of their energetic truths that you notice, hey waitaminit, there is something connecting the two. theyāre not the same thing, they are counterparts - they are similar energies being viewed and experienced from different angles by different people with different preconcieved notions. to one group what may be beneficial may to another group be malevolent, or what to one group may be unimportant may be centrally important to another. also, over time, different things are viewed differently.
a similar idea is found when you examine the āroadsā of the loi in vodun. there are a bunch of different roads for any loi, orisha, exu or pomba gira. on the surface they may have NOTHING in common and may even be hostile to each other. but at a root they have a certain connection. itās hard to explain.
Itās clear that you make Zazel and Azazel equivalent. You also make Amaimon and Mammon equivalent. Then you seem to advise one to call on Zazel in order to reach Mammon.
If behind everything you mean that there is a chain of access, then this is of helpful practical value. Otherwise, itās unclear what you mean by advising one to call on Zazel (whom you say is Azazel), in order to reach Mammon.
[quote=āFlame, post:12, topic:8110ā]@Infinityepok, I hope that you didnāt really meant what you just wrote. If so, since youāre Luciferās son I assume that I can receive a blessing from you as wellā¦ Ohh and also send him my greetings, he will know who I am! 
#HOPE #NOTICEMESENPAI #ILLUMINATI
By the way, sometimes itās not the best idea to be smartass and act like someone who knows everything but yet (still) has nothing. Give real advices, do not sell some late night stories for babies.[/quote]
Flame I donāt care lol
Iām just honest manā¦
To deny this Truth of who I am is to Deny Lucifer you should watch ur tongue boyā¦ Ur not a baby anymore!
thatās not what i said. this is what i said:
[quote=āthe magician, post:15, topic:8110ā]amaymonās jewish counterpart is the scapegoat zazel aka azazelā¦
If behind everything you mean that there is a chain of access, then this is of helpful practical value. Otherwise, itās unclear what you mean by advising one to call on Zazel (whom you say is Azazel), in order to reach Mammon.[/quote]
(the meaning of the word counterpart)
to my way of thinking, they have a similar energy but are not the same due to their faces (experiences with different parts of humanity) being different.
arabs would have had a different relationship to mamuun abba nuch than jews woudl to azazel. what might have been a powerful spirit for generating wealth and keeping law and order in arabia may have seemed to be a troublesome, oppressive, even pestilent force to jews in the levant.
different experiences.
if you take the time to ask mamuun abba nuch who he is to YOU, you may get a completely different answer altogether from anyone else here.
end result: you have to find out what he means to YOU.
But did you not say that Amaimon is Mammon?
mammon is amaymon aka maymuun abba nuch. i've already given you his sigil above.
[quote=āInfinityepok, post:26, topic:8110ā][quote=āFlame, post:12, topic:8110ā]@Infinityepok, I hope that you didnāt really meant what you just wrote. If so, since youāre Luciferās son I assume that I can receive a blessing from you as wellā¦ Ohh and also send him my greetings, he will know who I am!
#HOPE #NOTICEMESENPAI #ILLUMINATI
By the way, sometimes itās not the best idea to be smartass and act like someone who knows everything but yet (still) has nothing. Give real advices, do not sell some late night stories for babies.[/quote]
Flame I donāt care lol
Iām just honest manā¦
To deny this Truth of who I am is to Deny Lucifer you should watch ur tongue boyā¦ Ur not a baby anymore![/quote]
Is this a Threat? I hope notā¦
Why does Lucifer manifest physically without me calling him at all! and then when it comes to mammon its soooo much moooorree work!
I love mammon thoughā¦ u can just call mammon and donāt quit and he will appear 
its awesome
[quote=āthe magician, post:27, topic:8110ā]if you take the time to ask mamuun abba nuch who he is to YOU, you may get a completely different answer altogether from anyone else here.
end result: you have to find out what he means to YOU.[/quote]
There seem to be different rules for contacting Djinn,
especially a Djinn King.
But if there is an easier way to contact Mammon (my real objective),
then it makes sense to contact intermediary spirits,
if we know in fact which intermediary spirits will facilitate the easier access.
(This is why I am asking for clarification)
Have you guys read the āā The Demonic Bible""
iāll explain it this way:
meet bob. bob is the neighbourhood police constable. every morning bob waves hi to the families sending their children off to school. bob is well liked by everyone in the area and he knows them all by name.
one day it comes on the news taht bob ran into some hippies and roughed them up. bob hates hippies and everything they stand for. one smack talked him and bob threw him on the ground and stomped his ribs in so hard he broke one, puncturing the hippieās lung. for that bob was suspended with pay and the inquiry eventually cleared him. bob is severely reprimanded by his superiors for that event but gets his job back.
2 years later, bob is suspended without pay for shooting an unarmed black visitor to the neighbourhood. see, bobās dad was also a member of the local ku klux klan and bob has always been a white power racial sympathizer.
same bob, but his personality comes out in different ways in different circumstances, and those different personalities are taken to be the ārealā bob by those who experienced him that way.
to families he looked after, heās uncle bob or officer bobby who loves everybody. to the hippies heās that fucking pig who stomped out jerry. and to the black civilianās family, heās officer #433986 who killed tyrone for no reason other than being black in a white neighbourhood.
again. counterparts. different experiences give you different points of view, different names, different reactions, and different explanations.
if you donāt understand what i mean by my analogy then iām sorry i canāt help ya. believe whatever works for you and keep doing your magick however you want to.
[quote=āStudent of Goetia, post:31, topic:8110ā]There seem to be different rules for contacting Djinn,
especially a Djinn King.[/quote]
i figure that all comes down to again different mages having different experiences. a lot of magicians seem to love to make magick as long-winded, complicated, and tedious as they can. when in fact all youāre really doing is calling hallucinations under induced self-hypnotism.
iām thinking if you want to conjure mammon, put yourself into as deep a somnambulist trance as you can and just call his name. from there you may see, hear, or feel him and then begin your communication.
donāt make this sh*t any harder than it has to be. that then only leaves you with the problem of putting yourself into an open-eyed somnambulist trance. if all else fails, sit in a sensory deprivation tank or hire a hypnotist to do it for you.
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The analogy you have given is of a mask, which implies that there is 1 spirit behind different names. (making the spirit masks equivalent at the deeper layer).
i can tell it to you, but i canāt understand it for you.
iāll simply say ymmv and leave it at that.
if my way of looking at it is too confusing to you, just believe whatever you want and keep it moving.
donāt make magick any harder than it has to be.
You seemed to advise contacting Zazel, in order to ultimately reach Mammon.
I was trying to get more information about this method if it is an unknown intermediary chain.
If it is not an intermediary chain of access to Mammon, then I do not have further questions on it.
youāre being too literal about this thing.
spirits are metaphors, they are not facts.
and if you examine them over time, their properties change, often considerably.
you have to find out what they mean to you.
example: iāve heard satan being described as many different beings from many different parts of the world.
when i conjured him and asked him, WHO ARE YOU?
he told me i am set and anubis.
that was it.
i did the research and learned a TON about set. at the time i didnāt know who set was and i knew next to nothing about anubis.
over the years i have been led to many different spirits, and when doing preparatory immersion, 8 times out of 10 i find out the ones i am most drawn to have some close connection to set or anubis.
so is my understanding of satan being set and anubis a fact? youāve probably never heard that from anyone else but me and you probably wonāt hear that from anyone else except for me.
also, almost everyone iāve ever spoken to calls satan the father of lies. but i have conjured him many times, and every time i conjure him he gives me answers that are so cuttingly simple. they often only have one word he shouts at me and then he disappears. but when i do the research, he has NEVER lied to me, and his one and two word answers turn out to be paragraphs worth of true facts on anyone elseās tongue.
heās not the father of lies to me! to me he cuts right to the bone with his truth. and iām somebody whoās quick to call bullshit when i double-check facts. his facts always bear witness to me.
it works for me. and it has borne fruit for me. so i accept that.
it may do nothing for you. ymmv.
if maymuun abba nuch is amaymon to you, go for it. if not, leave it.
if amaymon is mammon to you, go for it. if not, leave it.
if amaymon and zazel have anything in common to you, go for it. if not leave it.
donāt make it more complicated than it has to be.
You guys are starting to impress me
Satan Means āTruthā
And yah I watched koettings Mastering Evocation and the first time I watched it I was immersed in it like sooo deeply that I was literally hanging with him as a friend it was weird but I knew it to be Truthā¦ We worked together on a ritual that I cant reveal to you because its not your pathā¦ But ive never seen Beyond the Demonic Veil until I met up with himā¦ I was always too afraid of itā¦ always afraid that stupid voice inside of me that I just want to kill that says
"what if the bible is right and they will hurt me" so ive killed that voice lately lol
And youll get to the point that you are revealed that demons are Real
and Factualā¦ Not metaphorsā¦
But Litterally LIving Beings that Can Physically Manifest From Thin Airā¦
When I saw mammon I felt Safe knowing He is my guardian Demon
All I know is while you guys are doing your thing I am working oncreating Prossperity in all of your lives and I promise and oath and pact to you that Iām not gonna quit ever until your all Infinite Trillionaires and the world is at peaceā¦ Even if I have to lead you all.
P.S.
"ARKALUS can show you how to manifest mammon"
And so can Anton Szandor Lavey
Or Amaymon
OR Bune
Or Clauneck
OR Lucifuge Rofocal
Or Lucifer
OR ANy DEMON that is Factual (Every single demon)
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I am not impressed. Too much complicated dramatic BS. Imagine what more you could do to evolve if you did not waste your time on these complications. LOL