If some demons only work with those already in wealth and power, which demons are supportive of the poor and powerless?
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I seriously doubt there are demons that “only work with those in wealth and power.” That completely flies in the face of the traditional grimoires which are all about using demons to get wealth and power. Just reading those books, you are left with the impression that most magicians were broke as shit.
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I don’t believe this hypothesis makes any sense. It is not borne out by people’s experience in this forum.
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That’s my idea too
My first thoughts would be either Bune or Clauneck, they could help you develop a plan that will lead you to career success, but I’m sure there others would be willing to work with you too. There’s pagan gods who can help with this as well. I remember mentioning on here that petitioned Zeus awhile back and got offered a job that paid $55,000 a year starting off with $1000 every year just for staying there but it was little bit too far for me.
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I made really good experiences with Bune; this spirit dealt me some really good cards so I could take a break from having nervous breakdowns in front of the atm or having to decide if I either have a roof above my head or dinner at the end of the day. Bune also cut my SO’s student loan debt into half of the amount that he should have paid back so that was a huge financial relief that bought me enough time to get into shape for the better paying positions.
Not going to lie, the mental re-construction for “more wealth” was a group effort with several other spirits but Bune helped me out time and time again until then.
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I’m not saying that this is “fair,” but you probably will get better results with money magick if you already have more money. That’s not because of magick, that’s just how money works.
Back when I was a full-time student with no time for a job I still manifested some money magick results. Now I could just go buy most of those results with no problem at all, maybe not all of it all at once, but the idea is that you can still get what you want oftentimes.
I think the problem poor people have is primarily mindset. Yes there are societal structures which can be challenging, but not really always if you change your mindset. The culture of different socioeconomic groups tends to keep them at their level of wealth. If you think differently, you become an outcast, which is a powerful influence on people.
I like to shill the BRRRR real estate strategy and real estate in general because it’s basically really effective investing for dummies that doesn’t need too too much capital. Yes, you have to not be a dummy to do it really well and investments in general well, but relatively speaking with regards to the kind of financial power you access (leverage, debt financing, credit) and the equity creation power of it, it’s reasonably simple and straightforward, which for people like me who want to minimize business as much as possible is ideal. It’s also the least capital-intensive in terms of barriers to entry. Absolutely doable with less than $100k I’d say, probably less than $50k, and you can pool funds and split the profits, and split profits are better than 0 profits. At that point it’s more about teamwork considering that you’re all on the same boat.
Many people get rich off real estate, it’s just a matter of getting to that first deal, at which point your financial freedom is even more inevitable. I suggest (not financial advice don’t sue me) house hacking (in the US), where you buy a multi-plex (duplex, 3-plex, 4-plex, whatever) with a 2.5% down FHA loan, live in one unit, rent out the others, you paid $2.5k for a $100k property you now own, no more rent payments, only rent income, which covers your mortgage and insurance and taxes and maybe you get a cool little profit on top of that. Own a 4-plex, or pay rent? Up to you. I am amused when people find being a landlord distasteful when they are wannabe lords of the left hand path.
That’s one option you could potentially take to cut personal expenses, increase income, and gain equity. Not exactly a mega wealth builder but instead of -$600/m or -$1600/m or whatever you now have +$, and like, a house. This is my dirt. Thanks for paying for my mortgage and insurance and taxes neighbors. If they’re loud, well, you’re the lord.
Getting to the investments business though, that may require another business. Some people get there with commercial art. Some people work a job with high income. The money’s not gonna fall out of the sky unless you ask for that (very specifically, money to invest) and then move to catch it. Maybe just stand next to it so the pot doesn’t squish you.
The idea is to request long-term financial freedom with your magick, not just some extra cash, and then to stick to that request and keep at it. I’ve been guided on some pretty interesting journeys with magick, money magick included. I won’t insult your magickal abilities and will assume you can listen and pick up the signs just fine.
I mean come on people, this is probably the most effective group of occultists in the public domain. We don’t have to pretend like magick’s just psychology or something. We know what’s going on, we know magick works. Get yourself aligned so magick can do what magick does.
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The problem is Shinri when people are born into environments like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6yPojNQ5DE (maybe not this bad though) it scars them for life not unlike war or rape might just in a different way. People can’t see opportunity when there struggling to feed themselves, there families or have to constantly worry about there health. This goes double for there kids who don’t learn the benefits of thinking long term if they spend half a lifetime thinking short term in order to survive. Thinking differently in a environment like this is seen as a luxury since it’s fruits yield no short term game for the individual or for the community. Generational is wealth maybe good for you and your children but what about the rest of the family or community? Very often nothing especially if you focus on your success and leave them behind while they struggle. That’s root of the issue which I’m not saying right or that anyone is owed anything but from tribal perspective such a approach is grossly selfish.
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This is exactly what I mean by “mindset problem.”
I’m not saying it’s fair, or “just,” or anything of the sort, it just is what it is. People are born unto extremely toxic and self-absorbed people all the time, and those people sometimes become exactly like their parents, sometimes they make themselves change and turn out less shitbaggy. People are born into poverty, sometimes they stay in poverty (mostly they stay in poverty), sometimes they climb out. I know of people born into 3rd world countries poorer than 1st world dirt poor homeless standards who became rich.
This is what many people do. Instead of asking themselves, how am I supposed to do that, they spend all of their energy hating and cursing people who are or who have what they want, and that is directly counterproductive.
Maybe instead of trying to think of that one gotcha example or another, maybe think about improving your life instead. I think about improving my life all the time. I journal about it, I do magick for it, it’s great, my life improves.
Is it my job to save the world? Is it my job to cure cancer, end homelessness, invent AI brain uploads, stop the near-inevitability of massively destructive climate change, keep the global economy running, cure covid, end LGBT racism sexism hate-killing? Am I the keeper of everyone around me? Is it my responsibility to financially take care of everyone who hasn’t and doesn’t give their time to money and sculpting themselves into a generally effective being like I do and have done? So I’m supposed to just martyr myself financially cause I can be fucked to make money and chose to do things which I wasn’t particularly ultra-jazzed about so I could make money? Because I had the courage to take risks?
No, that’s stupid. I take care of myself first and foremost, and that includes giving myself the luxuries I require. I lay opportunity before people because I enjoy it, but people usually just blow themselves up with their own emotional hand grenades, and that is simply not my problem. You are supposed to throw the grenade. Why’d you even pull it out in the first place? I don’t even have to throw it back, they just fuckin keep holding it as I casually walk a short distance.
The people who tend to say that I’m the one who’s supposed to FIX EVERYTHING WRONG WITH EVERYTHING are also the one’s who don’t do jack diddly shit, for themselves or for others, and instead wallow in their own weakness, believing their delusions of weakness, living and ultimately dying weak, impoverished in all areas of life, afraid.
The treasures of this world are there for the taking. I will refrain from the usual moralizing bullshit. I have my philanthropic missions which give me pleasure. Oh, and I assure you, I live in luxury, and I do what I fucking want. The demons have seen to that. Gulp. Gulp. Gulp.
Sometimes, people try and steal from me, deny me my pleasure. As it turns out, I do still enjoy my pleasures.
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My comment wasn’t supposed to personal attack on you but commentary on how the poor think and specifically the poor who never make it out of these situations. I am poor myself but I come from a family on my dads side that is immensely economically privileged where the worst concern in life despite messing up several times (my dad) is that the price of maids is up. Now that said they are very intelligent people and joined the ranks of economic/political elite in there country through there own intelligence and merit (I would like to believe) so I’m familiar with what your saying. This mindset (envy, greed, jealousy, the evil eye) holds the poor back with because they can’t see past there own hatred and blinds them to the opportunities right in front them. I suppose what separates the haves from the have-nots is the ability to recognize opportunity combined with the ability to be able to properly take advantage of said opportunity as it arises. Not everyone has that ability or got the chance to develop it. Also being poor and suffering from neglect or malnourishment does have significant effect on people who are economically disadvantaged brainwise.
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@shinri, I’m not sure I follow the latest reply. I dont think it as meant for you yourself to take care of everyone, but let’s face it, a lot of the shitbags you mention are executives, which is known to house psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists, at that level, simply because of the freedom and lack of eyes on you. They thrive in such an environment and position.
That said, these are the people least likely to raise a wage, and let’s face it, psychopaths, sociopath, narcissist or not, they need to cut the crap when they have enough profit to raise wages instead of their bonuses to keep up with the times.
Now, is it their responsibility to raise wages? Not necessarily. But over 50% of job signs I see state wage you can make, but it’s rarely the case.
After being a professional starting at 11 per hour in 1993, and up to 50.00 per hour in 2014, I was doing good aside from a year or less lull until another contract opportunity was available. Being in positions where all rationalizing aside, I probably spent on average 1/3 of the day doing real work, direct analyst to customer contact, problem framing and solving, planning, etc.
Then to drop seven years into poverty is enough to make anyone mad.
So, as a personal example, I know how much executives have made at various jobs, even shit jobs.
So they need to cut the crap when a global multi billion dollar company cant raise wages, or so they say, as they continually outsource and offshore.
Its really a bunch of bullshit to be frank.
So, back on topic, in this said, sure, when I was making 50.00 per hour and climbing the ladder, it could have been seven years of fine tuning and polished by a demon for something much larger. But, that didn’t happen.
So among the ranks of folks making poverty wages and making tough calls with their last dollars, no matter how well they planned, because sometimes honestly we just get fucked by life. So for the poor and powerless, there are saints, so there must be an appropriate demon.
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But I must say, I like your finance knowledge. I personally hate business and finance because I suck as bad at it as math, but I appreciate your knowledge and words.
If I had credit and capital, I would follow your advice in a heartbeat.
Im sick of this dollar menu life and know I can do better. So … there must be someone … someone … anyone … beuller … beuller… 
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Perhaps you could consult a demon that can help you improve that then if numbers are your weakness. Paimon I hear is pretty good at teaching math and other sciences.
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Dude I suck at math use a calculator and do lots of dividing by 2 it’s fine.
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You know I think this is either synchronicity or the YouTube algorithm but either way I think this applies to our little debate. Perhaps the answer between what your saying and what I’m saying lies somewhere in between. The Greek Gods of Wealth and Poverty | Mythology Explained - Jon Solo - YouTube (
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Belial is a highly recommended demon for everything monetary, and it is not necessary that you have an accumulated capital. He’s related to the earth element, and therefore with the material and abundance.
It’s positive to have financial education, as always. I worked with him in my early years as a magician and got very good results.
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I’m not really sure what about this is a debate.
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I thought the story was a kind of the middle-ground between how poor people think and what you were saying or at least related to the conversation. It showed how this debate is truly timeless since the exact same things we discussed last night were discussed 2500 years ago too. It popped up in my YouTube recommendations shortly after we had this conversation.
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@shinri … Thank you again for the financial ideas.
My problem aside from impatience and projection, is capital and credit. Im trying to improve both. If I were still in Chicago, I’d try joining the Chicago Social and talk with investors there. Lots of investors in that group.
When and if I can get back to where I was in 2014 or better, I will definitely put your ideas to use.
In the meantime, I may go through your ideas and put them in a micro perspective rather than macro, if I can recall what the economic terms mean.
@shinri … @MagickalStudent569 … @DarkestKnight … @Mulberry … and everyone else, thank you all for your replies. Even though I ask a lot of dumb questions, I do learn something.
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The book 7 Occult Money Rituals works quite well for me. I don’t use the full system now, but probably will return to the full practice when there is a period of time in front of me in which I want to focus on significant financial growth and expect to make many changes and give money more attention than is usual for me. The methods are lightweight and easy to integrate into practice alongside other methods. Even with this ease of use, the rituals are still very effective because the energy covers all the essentials of money magick and the energy is summoned consistently and becomes part of your daily experience.
Regarding the idea of a “patron spirit of poverty,” think about that for a second. Do you want to become attached to a spirit of poverty? Would you ask someone with an energy of poverty for financial advice? Or would you rather summon the energy of Jupiter, a god of wealth and abundance? If you don’t yet have wealth, that is exactly the point of summoning a god of wealth and abundance. Fill your life with poverty moves and poverty energy, and that’s the life you’ll have.
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