Title is self explanatory.
We’ve all heard the benefits of balancing ones chakras, but I want to know if anyone has had any negative experiences with the 7 chakra system, and if so, what do you use as an alternative, if any?
The only alternatives I know of are condensing the chakras into one, removing them completely, or using the spheres in the middle pillar.
I would love to hear arguments for and against the 7 chakra system.
The problem with the 7 chakra system is, there are more than 7
In fact there are over 100 chakras
In Vajrayana Buddhism there are many chakras within the body.
Most practices won’t share this knowledge to outsiders mainly because it unlocks a lot of Siddhis and powers.
As for the Sephira, they aren’t that different from the Dan tien in taoist alchemy in fact I’d say they are exactly the same.
I personally don’t focus on chakras that much because I work with the Kalachakra wheels, which is the most advanced form of magickal and spiritual practice, if you ask me
Thanks for these informations. Do you work with these wheels through energy accumulation /cultivation technique or other way?
It reminds me some qigong systems in which a wheel is activated into dan tien area and work as a super battery even in between the practice. So the practicer get refined energy permanently and not only during his training
If you ask me, the Dan tien and the sephira are one and the same, at least in the middle pillar, there are many wheels, I can’t really share all of it because I’m still learning myself, but it can be a dangerous practice if you ask me…
It’s very very very powerful and I’m still trying to understand it more, but it’s definitely not for the uninitiated, I learned some techniques from Enki, and I honestly don’t feel like doing it without him because last time I did I felt like I could’ve fucked up bad
Kalachakra tantra is designed to develop the powers of the 12 Gods within you, not only that, it developed the rainbow body, and it’s the opposite of the vampire path and Nephilim magick, however you do have to face a lot of demons, or dark primordial entities, because they are the dark shells that create reality according to your perception
So Enki got me started off with the Shem and goetia challenge, and he said it’s still early for the full blown kalachakra experience
But compared to all the teachings I’ve been looking at to satisfy myself, I’d say the kalachakra tantra is where it’s at, it’s been called the ultimate practice throughout history
As noted If say the original system is good, but the modern 7 chakra system with its dummy colors is fake, it does less to develop your energy than create these as thoughtforms inside you which can be good to start with, if used as the tools they are, but eventually, if assumed to be the real thing just limit you.
This is similar to the middle pillar as the tree of life system by Israel regardie does the same thing. Both are tools and helpful for beginners when used as such.
But people who study real yoga and put in the work will get past this on their own.
Qigong is different than chakras is different than the pillars/sephirah. They’re in the same places but the use and intentions are different. That changes everything, because intention is everything.
I think qigong is closer to the underlying reality and it’s the older system at 10k years (unless the vedas, said to be written 5k years ago ish were actually written during 400k years as claimed, but this seems challenging).
I also enjoy and successfully work with the idea that the Dan Tians are storage centers, that works for me. I’m all for retaining my personality and building the cosmic light body to do so like an ascended master. However, ascendedmasters are still essentially human and I’m expecting there’s another layer beyond where you’re not human anymore that I want to get to.
This is my only reservation about the existing bodies of knowledge, the extreme human-centricity, with its assumption and focus on immortality as a human being the only way. There are so many more planets and options in the galaxy, this seems closed minded to me.
Interesting. If they are just thoughtforms and not based in objective reality than what do you think it means when people refer to a blockage in a specific chakra? Imo the chakras mainly correspond to nerve centers in the human body, and the feeling of these nerve centers in ones objective reality creates thoughtforms of the chakras on the astral plane.
So when you experience trauma, depending on which set of nerves you “store” the trauma in, it can cause a blockage in that specific region. That being said, my medical knowledge is limited.
I have had plenty of bad or unprecise experience with this system (good post btw) after using gemstones and crystals etc, I realized that there are much more chakras than 7. In fact, colors are not really working either. I guess it is case by case and that this uniform 7 chakras isn’t real for everyone. We’re made different.
Well, hold on, because I didn’t say any of that and I don’t agree with it.
First, I didn’t say thoughtforms aren’t “real” or that they don’t affect you. I did not diminish them as “just” anything. I think I said they limit you, eventually, which they have to be real to be able to do. Servitors are this class of thoughtform. It’s my view that everything is “real”.
… Even imagination, if it’s only affecting one person and cannot be experienced by any other consciousness, is still real to that one person, it’s just in a part of the astral that’s so personal it’s not shared by anyone else at all. This makes results in the shared realities (like, the physical as the one we tend care about the most) more difficult, but it’s still there in one or more levels of reality.
I’m constantly trying to remind people that humans are creator beings and what you create is real and you should trust yourself.
Second, to use a term like “objective reality” is tricky, because this only exists in a context within a set of defined assumptions. These assumptions are usually not stated, but taken for granted. (Like, you’re human, in gravity and breathing air … none of these are a given in the occult). But here in the occult what “reality” means can’t be taken for granted as it is for the average human walking down a street today. So there’s no such thing as “objective reality” as a standalone concept. In magick you have to qualify that to say which, and who’s, reality you mean, at what level on being.
Alright,
what do you think it means when people refer to a blockage in a specific chakra?
Here I will assume you are NOT referring to actual chakras from the complete system, but what I consider the pretty rainbow fake set of thoughtforms people create because they are working form a dumbed down set of instructions.
And I say this from personal experience, as I’ve posted elsewhere on this very forum multiple times. I have followed such instructions and done it myself. But I already knew my energy because I’d been doing qigong for 20 years, and I WATCHED these things and what they did in my energy field. So this is my UPG you could say, based on my observations. They are like little stained glass windows inside your energy body filtering the energy into a predefined set of expectations instead of allowing you to see what’s there: and that’s the root of the issue that trapped me, the expectation setting that happens. Humans automatically create based on expectations, because that’s what we do and we are not instructed to let it be. I then went and removed them using the Water Method of Taoist Meditation, which you can’t do with actual chakras.
However, these “expected” chakras, as I said, are a tool to help you investigate your energy. As they act as a lens, you still get information from them and can affect your energy through them, in a way that I think is easier for people new to energy working or without well defined senses to use. And a lot of people never get beyond being new to it.
They’re like training wheels on a bike, that’s a better analogy.
After that, I can’t answer that question about “a blockage in a specific chakra” because different people mean different things and I don’t honestly trust they know what they mean without talking to them. It’s like when people call tech suport and go “it doesn’t work”… this is not enough to identify a fix.
They may mean it’s not spinning, they’re not getting info from it, they’re experiencing symptoms they have been told means it’s blocked, they have discomfort, or gas, or not fully healed trauma, or the elements are out of balance, or it’s too yin or too yang, or … as many reasons as there are people really. You should read the actual energy system and work with each person on an individual basis to understand what this means.
What is a “nerve center”? There’s physically no such thing unless you talk about he brain and heart, which are not chakras themselves, they’re organs. This seems to be a term from new age that people don’t question but it means almost nothing. There’s the acupuncture points, they often correspond to nerves close to the skin and some of the 200 some chakras, but not always.
There is also a system of fascia that aligns somewhat with the meridians, (and the Indian system also has meridians called nadis that people ignore and are just as important as the chakras) but the dumbed down “7 chakra system” ignores these so the student is left without practical tools for using them.
The prana and qi systems are not physical, they are the structure of the energy body, which overlaps and connects with the physical but are not the same thing. The entire point of the systems is them to learn to be able to read and work with the energy body by understand these components as well as we understand out nerves and veins. The western “lite” version doesn’t achieve that except at a basic level, which is fine for most people, but I think turns many away as it did me, as you can feel it’s hollowed out, kind of.
So, based on what I said above, this make no sense to me… Intention creates thoughtforms not random experiences, there are no nerve centers to feel, there’s no such thing as “objective” reality to rely on for this context, and they’re not in the astral plane anyway, which is a plane of mental energy not qi. They’re in the physical plane but are energy not physical matter. You need both a qi body and a physical body to incarnate as a physical being and you die twice, once from each body when you leave it. This is according to both Chine Taoism and Egyptian books of the dead, and also features in the view of us having multiple nested bodies found in Buddhism.
So, you store the trauma as a knot of energy within your qi body. This knot can make it difficult for energy to flow smoothly, like a partial block in a pipe. (Rarely a full black which would have very severe symptoms, it’s more like a restriction like a clogging of the arteries is a restriction not a block).
You will not be able to find it in the physical body in nerves or organs. But you will find the manifestation of it as tension and/or there may still be physical damage, like say, a scar, and likewise this damage in the physical can cause upstream effects. You can end up in a viscous circle with this. But you can also find knots that are from past trauma where there is no sign physically at all, you can have emotional trauma from the emotional body causing effects in the qi body, and also from the mental body to the emotional body and from there on down.
Humans tend to feel fear either in their chest, stomach, or genital region, and sometimes the throat. These correspond to the locations of the chakras. In order to feel these centers they would need to be mapped out in the nervous system or else you would not feel them
Do you work with the 3 main Dan Tien or are there more?
According to my knowledge, there are 5 Dantien which are the 5 sefira of the middle pillar.
Mantak chia has also talked about how there’s a secret 4th Dan tien
But I know there to be 5 because there are 5 steps to enlightenment in Kalachakra yoga identical bodily functions and correspondences, which secret Wiccan covens also practice as an initiation into knighthood
How are Wiccan covens and Knighthood related. Aren’t those two completely separate traditions?
In qigong, fear affects and is stored in the kidneys, causing kidney issues, and conversely poor kidney function or disease can make you feel afraid for no external reason.
The reason the body reacts is the heart is affected by adrenaline, which is not directly fear but the fight or flight reactions: i.e., you can get the same reactions from things other than fear, so that hypothesis doesn’t explain all the results. The stomach is connected to the heart (in qigong, the organs are in yin yang pairs). I don’t know about the genitals bit, that is mistaking fear for something else and is connected to perversion and survival.
You can definitely fear for your survival. Sexual traumas are also worth noting.
I would assume that this is someone trying to conflate the systems when they are not really related, as playing he match matchy game is popular these days and we see this all the time here with deities for the same reason: intellectual laziness it seems and a reductionism from having a hard time dealing with complexity.
According to Echols, that is, they’re not related, I don’t know where the comes from and I see no evidence in the documentation.
The middle pillar five sephira are not dan tiens at all… if you actually look at the images provided, they DO correspond in location to five of the big chakras though. Chakras are not dan tians, they’re in different locations. I don’t know if Israel Regardie (who invented the middle pillar quite recently) did qigong to know about the dan iens, but he seems most influenced by yoga.
This makes sense as that was a thing along with Egyptian magick at the time for the golden dawn types. They were all about yoga and the Indian currents. If you look into their stories t know where they were coming from it helps avoid adding 2 and 2 to make five. No pun intended. 
This is the match matchy game but is unhelpful in his case, The sephira also have very different purposes, there is no gain in blending these systems, which historically were also developed by very different cultures and time periods with different symbolism.
The closest match (in location but nothing else) is the middle dan tien, which is near (actually slightly above, not in) the solar plexus chakra and whatever that sephira is.
However, it’s not a chakra and behaves differently, has different correspondences and issues when it’s messed up etc. You should not follow say, necessarily follow ayrvedic rules to treat a Chinese qigong issue: keep it all in the same system.
Edit: ah and again with the nadis vs meridians, these are connected differently. The du mai meridians make a circuit that runs all the way around and up the inside of the spine, it touches these dan tiens because they’re so big, much bigger than the other points. The chakras have a central column running up the middle of the body. The ida and pingala either side of the spine for kundalini have no match in qigong at all.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I understand the desire to play matchy matchy as a reasonable search for the underlying truth that different systems must be pointing to if they both work.
(Well, not for the sephiroth, that’s a much more simple tool and less well developed kabbalistic magick oriented tool that is not attempting to map to the human energy system for a holistic treatment of health and wellness. It stands alone as kind of “inspired by”. )
However, it’s like playing matchy match with the elephant story, one blind person going “an elephant is like a snake” (feeling the trunk) and another going “elephant is like a tree trunk” (feeling the leg) and then going “oh ok so snakes and tree trunks must be the same thing because they’re both elephants”.
Qigong and yoga systems are not “truth”: they are MODELS of the underlying truth used as tools for us to access it with out limited faculties… so this is what I feel is happening when people try to match togeter different models of what’s underneath, instead of working with them as they are designed.
