Probably not making any friends here, but

The reason is because I only choose to debate with people who want an actual debate rather than a dick measuring content or insult war. I got my “no your a cunt fuck you” days when I was 17. If people aren’t mature enough to have a mature debate to develop real ideas then its a waste of my time in which I do not have to spare. If you stop responding to the dick measures and insult warriors they eventually stop commenting.

Simply I only engage with people who are looking for engagement rather than fuckery. That is why when people debate me it doesn’t turn into a shitstorm.

Reality is most shitstorms take two people to bring it there. If one side doesnt show up to a boxing match then there is no boxing match.


I think most of the problems in your OP (or at least what most people are mentioning) stem from the ideal that most of xyz experiences are probably LARP considering xyz’s experience level. Which, in itself, is problematic considering you honestly just never know. However, there’s definitely some threads i’ve side-eyed because of the ridiculousness. Also, I do think it’s kinda funny when i’m looking through advice and people just recommend evoking xyz like evocation is so easy (even though, granted, there’s definitely some basic-beginner evocation threads, sites, etc out there but still lol).


I recently posted a link to a YouTube video from an ex ONA member talking about a possession case.
This is a good example of why invoking or evoking can be problematic.
Who or how do we know who were talking to? It boils down, in my opinion to experience. I started evoking way too early and could have had disastrous results, luckily I didn’t. Banishing, clairsentience, guidance and experience all seem to be keys to evoking the correct spirit, in my opinion.


The tone you have here I believe is what you should have had when opening this thread up to discussion. I’ve read how this thread progressed and I see your points about people needing to know how to get some kind of validation before moving on.

Point noted, if you feel so strongly about this, point them in the right direction. Stating a problem is different than proferring a solution.

That’s why whenever I read a post where I find that people are walking into a genuine stumbling block but they don’t realize it I try to type up a semi decent reply to address the issue at hand or point them to a section of the forum where they might find inspiration for help.

Often times I have these same people PM me later telling me how much it mattered to them that I took my time out to genuinely show them a different and maybe more effective way for things to get done. And that for me is all the validation I need.

So my friend, making a change is difficult and won’t certainly be found by making one thread with a narrowing tone. We passed the whole point the finger at the witch stage centuries ago, I prefer we leave it there.

I understand you treat beginners respectfully, I see that and I encourage you to continue to do so. I’m just saying that this isn’t particularly encouraging to those seekers who want to genuinely improve and re invent themselves.

Like @Lady_Eva said, if you see what you perceive as BS that affects other members, flag it. If it bothers you so much gently nudge the person to the direction of some of the many tutorials of things we have on the forum. Or teach them how. That goes a long way.

That is all I have to say on this topic in question.


I do. Regularly. Which is why I saved this rant for those who have no appreciation what so ever for the efforts so many of us make.

I said this about 20 times so far, but it apparently bears repeating, because I am still seeing misinterpretation of my words. LARPers. Laziness. At no point did I make any digs against beginners in any way, nor did I advocate being mean to someone who is genuine, no matter what their question is.

I did, however, make it very clear that I have no reason to offer solace or courtesy to those who are making up stories for kicks, or are too lazy to do some actual work.

And I did make a suggestion: do more magick. If a person is making up stories for the sake of screwing around then screw them. If a person is making up stories because they feel a need to fit in, then do more magick so they do have some cool stories.

I am at a loss as to how it has been repeatedly misunderstood that this is a dig against newbies when I very clearly (and repeatedly) have pointed out the focus of my angst as LARPers and lazy shytes.

And I am at an utter loss as to why anyone would want to rise to their defense.

As to those who wonder why I find this to be a problem, consider that if it becomes the trend to ‘fit in’ because some feel inadequate, then we are breeding our own community’s destruction through weakness and a lack of any true effort. It will become more important to have a story than it is to actually get into ritual.

This is what happens when you allow falsity and laziness to thrive.

But by all means, if that is what you guys want, then you may get just that. Have fun with that crap.


Ok I said I wasn’t gonna hop back in here but some of you are missing the point of what he’s saying. I will not sit here and argue anything because the community basically speaks for itself moreover i just got off work and I couldn’t give a flying fuck. (If I do, someone remind me not to)

Point is: There are people who will sit here, ask for advice and they either: 1) get incomplete advice 2) don’t get it (both in the sense of no one helping them or they just can’t grasp it. Que Patrick star reference, see “Firmly grasp it in your hand”) 3) they don’t take it seriously 4) get for lack of a better word, retarded advice.

Then they turn around and ask the same thing over and over again. In other words, not everyone applies what is taught or as it was previously put they put in no effort Now. Who’s they? Certain people

Now as for what I said, it’s still very applicable, whilst being it’s own separate point.


Maybe so, but I took time above to point out what in your OP led to the newbie thing, so, it wasn’t just plucked from thin air, anyway System is nagging me for talking to you too much :stuck_out_tongue: so I’m out of it, I have made some suggestions and hope we’ll get something useful. :+1:


It was useful. It’s called a wake up call.