Thanks for the recommendation. If I may do another question, as a plural system, what do you think of invocation/possesion? Is it similar to your condition (more than one energy or consciousness in a body)?
That is an excellent question. From what we’ve heard - as we have limited experience with it (in this life, some people in the system have more from their past lives, though, but we can’t guarantee it would have worked the same way for them as it would here, so we can’t use that as a solid reference), there aren’t that many similarities. Here is what we generally experience with fronting, to give you a good idea (not all systems experience fronting in this way, so don’t take this as law):
We don’t black out or go unconscious - so we have something called “shared awareness”. We’ll use three headmates in an example for this. Chii, Scott and Will. Say Chii has been fronting for a while, and he’s tired and wants to go inworld and relax. Maybe Scott wants to do something and comes out and takes over the front. Chii’s will, interests, identity, thoughts and everything that makes him Chii will fade away and become inactive, and everything that makes Scott, Scott, will become dominant and be in control of decision making and thought processes. Basically, hooking up different, individual minds to the same, shared brain. Now, let’s say Will wants to co-front with Scott, and also be doing something in the outerworld (the world outside us, real world, physical world, etc). They can both be present at the same time, but they don’t become fused into one being. They have two separate thought processes going at once, which may at times agree and go along the same path briefly. But regardless of whether they actually agree or not, they can still work together and the body will function like normal, unless they really aren’t communicating or are outright ignoring each other (we’ve been known to turn around a few times in a row or seem to change our mind on something constantly because of disagreements… at least it puts on a humorous show for others, hahah). Probably because we’ve been this way for our entire life, our body and brain deal very well with having many people driving it, and it hardly takes any focus for us to accomplish that, it’s fairly automatic. Now, onward with the example.
The whole time Scott and Will have been fronting, Chii has been inworld, yes? So his consciousness has no say on what happens, and his opinion isn’t present. He isn’t able to think, either. Nor is he actively experiencing what is currently going on with them - this is where things get awfully confusing, for system and singlet alike. “Shared awareness”, for us, and for other systems that also have this mechanic, is a commodity that can be passed around; it doesn’t matter if someone is fronting or if they’re inworld, they can have awareness. Not having awareness, in our system, completely cuts you off from yourself; you have zero sense of yourself without it. The only thing being experienced actively is whatever is going on where the awareness is, but because you don’t have the awareness, you aren’t even aware that you know about it! It’s like being unconscious, but without any of the experience of being unconscious. Yeah, we know, you probably have a headache by now, hahah, and we don’t blame you. Most of us were singlets in our past lives, so we’ve had to learn how to wrap our heads around this, too, in some kind of way that makes any sense at all. (The ones who were in systems in their pasts, though, are now subsystems in our system - we have layers, hahah.)
Like, right now, Chii is pacing impatiently inworld and telling us to hurry up because he wants to continue his conversation in another thread. He has awareness right now, despite being inworld. In the earlier example, he would have given up all awareness, and would therefore not be aware of himself, either, or what he’s up to inworld. It gets weirder - people can still do things inworld without any awareness, and they don’t act like zombies or robots, they don’t just run on instinct. They go about their day in their typical way, and only become aware of what they did once they get their hands on some “awareness” again - it’s only then that they remember what they were doing. We think “awareness”, in this sense, is just access to our physical brain. But we’re not certain.
So, again, the earlier example, Chii goes inworld and gives up all of his awareness for Scott and Will to use. Let’s say he fronts again when they leave. His thought processes, identity, opinions and so on resurface and his will and individuality are in full control again. Then he will be caught up on what he was doing inworld. However, he will not be caught up on what Scott and Will were doing while they were fronting - because that information never left our awareness, and there’s no need to be caught up. He knows it automatically. What our awareness is on, everyone will always know. Some people have kind of shoddy memory, but that’s their individual problem. (Though we did lose an entire Tuesday once, and only once - and no one has come forward to own it! No idea what happened there.)
So, in a sense, you could argue that we only have one “consciousness” - because it isn’t attached to every individual person all the time. However, each person has their own past, their own ideals and beliefs, opinions and interests, and constant disagreements with each other. :] We are many people who are having to experience life through only one body, so to us, it makes sense that things work this way. We were in denial of it for a long time though, for fear of looking fake. Once we opened up about it and described it, we learned that most systems are exactly the same way, hahah, and that everyone had been afraid to speak up. (Probably because DID being recognized by psychology has set a “gold standard of real realness and the most valid of validity” in people’s minds.)
All of that being said, every person still has the agency to take awareness if they want it - it doesn’t have to be given, even if they have none at the moment. They don’t need awareness to get it. Figure that one out.
We also have no function to block each other out, and we haven’t experienced trauma so our brain hasn’t made a habit of forgetting events. We can all gang up on one person and harass them until they leave, but that would make us assholes. Someone could also distract them inworld - for example, Chii could slap Scott’s body inworld to get his attention away from the front, and therefore weaken his grip on it so others can slip into the front more easily.
And when it comes to fronting, it really comes down to willpower. If there’s a fight over the front (happens occasionally, no family is perfect), whoever is able to maintain the most mental focus is the one who will win. So, with the above example, definitely Scott, hahah. Before, he’s had a bad habit of forcibly taking over during a hard time and pushing everyone else away, but it’s an effort to protect others (though they didn’t ask for it!). It is possible to hog all the awareness for yourself, too, but that generally needs an aid, such a switching song and a picture of yourself. Most people in our system have a switching song - that is a song that, for whatever reason, strongly resonates with you in particular and never fails to draw you to the front, whether you like it or not. When someone wants the front to themself for a while and doesn’t want to be interrupted (usually when they’re working on a project on in a personal conversation), they’ll listen to said song on repeat with a picture up that looks like them. That helps them maintain a stronger grip, because it’s a constant reminder of their identity and who they are as a person. Now, in Scott’s case… he’s been sneaky and set “traps” before, like changing our computer wallpaper before bed so when someone turns it on the next day, it opens to a picture of him. Or changing our ringtone to his switching song. He doesn’t feel the need to do any of that anymore, but he enjoyed being a sneaky fucker, hahah. And that’s fine, it isn’t actually in violation of any of our system rules, so long as he’s decent about it (he is).
We also have the peanut gallery, which is an officially recognized term in the plural community, hahah. The name is a metaphor for a state of being when someone has awareness and is actively paying attention to the front instead of the innerworld, but isn’t actually in control of the body. We call these people snarky commentators who want to back seat everything you ever do. Every now and then, there will be a rude joke or inappropriate remark from the peanut gallery (there are several people who like to regularly inhabit the peanut gallery) about whatever is going on or what we’re thinking about. Because people.
Even while writing this, there was a pause because of a remark like that, to say, “Which of you bastards said that?” (It was Gavin, but we won’t say what he said, hahah.)
(We tease each other. A lot~ It’s frankly really boring in the system, hahah. We have no internet inworld, a dangerous thing indeed.)
^ Each sentence in the previous paragraph was written by a different person, hahah.
Anyway! As you can probably tell, this is a rather complex subject, but we enjoy rambling about it quite a lot - we don’t get that opportunity very often at all, and to be honest, we’re still figuring it out ourselves, and we have no perfect explanation, only our experiences and assumptions.
A simple, but very misleading summary: Many people experiencing life as one person. Kind of. Sort of. It’s the awareness that changes when we switch, rather than the consciousness. Make sense? However, we are all definitely individual people, and just because we interface with our brain and the world in this manner doesn’t mean we’re bits of one person. We can’t imagine bits and pieces being this complete and occasionally in intense disagreement about personal beliefs and opinions.
We can also feel whatever anyone with awareness is feeling, including emotions, physical sensations inworld and while fronting, and thoughts. That can build up in a pretty bad way at times, if someone is horribly despairing, they can bring a lot of people down with them, and that can get out of control. Because feelings spread quickly among us, we tend to feel emotions very strongly. But we know how to identify what belongs to who, and what to do about it. This is normal for us, and we’ve gotten much better with it over time. This is also why we have to carefully control our vampiric empathy.
As for our couple of experiences with possession. That felt like an outside force moving our body, and we had no access to whatever mind or thoughts it had. It was downright weird and uncomfortable, and we wouldn’t let just anything do that. Because control of our body is an extremely precious commodity for us, we’re probably far more picky about it than most people. No one gets enough time at the front as it is - so why should we let something else get control and take away even more time? That’s our logic, and obviously it won’t apply to you. It felt like being put on like a glove and manipulated like a puppet. It’s a very, very different sensation from when someone fronts, which feels entirely natural to us. It just feels like… moving your own body. It feels the same as it did when we were singlets. Like we said, the awareness would be focused on the person in control - and it does seem to be impossible to front without any awareness at all, by the way - so it wouldn’t be from the “perspective” of another person being puppeted by the person fronting, if that makes sense. Ah, that’s another good (but slightly misleading) way to put it, actually. Perspective. Our perspective changes when we switch, rather than our consciousness. We seem to share one consciousness. But we all have our own perspectives on things, and you can only have your own perspective while you have awareness. You have no ability to take place in an argument or to defend your opinions without awareness. Does that make sense?
In an extremely shallow sense, an onlooker might think that we’re one person changing personality into others. While we can see why someone might think that (and we did too, for a bit), but we don’t agree with it. The only reason we did think that, again, is because we have to experience life through one body; one consciousness. It took quite a while to figure all this out, for us, and to come to terms with it and accept it. Sorry our thoughts are (very) disorganized on it, hahah.
So, what does that sound like to you? Similar to your experiences with possession at all? As we said, we have very little experience with invocation, so we aren’t experts, and we would believe that different people experience it differently.
Unfortunately our tendonitis has strongly disagreed with this post so we’ll see you another time! It was a pleasure rambling at you though, hahah.
Thank you for the answer. It is really cool and I think I might have to reread a few times. I have some experience with invocation and until now I have only achieved some light partial possesion. It feels like you just sit back and watch while the spirit does his thing. And what you say about the comments from the others while they are not front, that sometimes happens to me with spirits. I just think of something and I get at the same moment a comment. It is not like a voice, it is more like my mind recieves the abstract pure idea and put its into words in my inner voice. And yeah sometimes they say some innapropiate stuff
Please just make sure you are all aware of the forum’s rules, to avoid problems. Cheers.
Ah, thank you! We actually hadn’t seen this yet, only the guidelines. We’ve read it thoroughly, thanks for the link (and all of our headmates have been educated on it). This actually was something we wanted to discuss with a staff member, since we can understand why there could be concerns over an account shared by several headmates.
First, we want to make it very clear that this forum is currently the only good resource we have for magick, and no one in the system is keen on losing that, so more than likely, everyone will behave themselves.
Just in case someone decides not to behave, we only let people post here if at least two people are co-fronting, or someone is otherwise reading over the poster’s shoulder, to look over what they write before it goes up. One of the rules of our system is to always follow the rules of whatever community we’re currently participating in; things like local law, forum etiquette, things like that. We discipline headmates who break system rules by revoking fronting time and letting them stew in their shame alone until they understand what they did wrong (and cutting them off from whatever place they violated, if applicable). That said, we will still do our best to prevent posts that break rules from going up at all, and deleting them if anyone does manage to get them up.
We’re not expecting our headmates to break any rules, by the way - we’ve never had issues like that, and people know to be respectful when fronting. This is just for the sake of clarity. If someone in the system is really pissed about something for whatever reason, they can just vent to us, inworld. It’s no big deal if they can’t post their thoughts.
Now, just in case something somehow does get through all that and someone feels the need to be an ass about something, we will take responsibility for it. We’re not one of those systems who lets their headmates say and do anything and then dismisses any punishment, saying only the individual is to blame. Please. If you share a brain, you’re all responsible, that’s just how it is. We’ve always found that kind of behavior… a bit too convenient, and it makes all systems look like fake excuses for brainless actions.
If one of us breaks a rule - even if they claim they didn’t know the rule - just treat us like a singlet account. One breaks a rule, we all break it, deal with us as you would anyone else. Should we be banned, we assure you we’ll let the headmate responsible know how the rest of us feel about all of us losing access to this resource. And that feeling is more than likely enough to prevent anything from happening in the first place.
But anyway, thank you, and we hope that makes sense. Does it seem like a fair way to deal with us?
Welcome. May you find more of what you seek.
Thank you, and may you find what you seek, as well.
Well I just wanted to say welcome. Just thought I would put out there for you, that I have some experience with the Otherkin community (sothing I have not talked about myself on here), No I no longer identify as one.
But enough about me. I just have two questions.
Over a couple thousand!? How do even “you” manage to keep track? Not trying to be rude, genuinely curious.
Second…hmmm having trouble trying to figure out how to word this. What you got in there?(sorry best way I could think of putting it at the moment.) Exp. Humans, anthomorphs, animals, ETs, mythic beasts, and so on.
Thank you for the welcome. We prefer not to use the term otherkin to describe our headmates, but that’s just us. We have no issue with the community itself.
Don’t worry, it’s not rude, hahah. Like we said, there are no stupid questions (but we can definitely give stupid answers.) But, these are actually good questions, in our opinion. Some systems are miffed by being asked how they keep track, but we don’t see a need to be. So, how do we keep track? Not very well, to be perfectly honest. Our organization is mediocre and we need to work on it. There was a time when we were on top of everything. Most systems of our size manage things by keeping a physical list of headmates that describes all of them (though this is also for the benefit of people outside the system). We have a very mild version of that, but we haven’t updated it in ages, and we find more headmates in the system now and then, so we’re way behind. All that said, there’s not really a need to keep track. Each person just exists, and they always remember themselves. A list would be for individuals in the system to look over everyone without having to call a meeting inworld (which can be a huge hassle for us). Make sense?
Though your reaction to our number is pretty amusing to us, because we’ve known several systems with billions of headmates and counting, hahah. (And they stay better organized than we do… )
For some reason this wording made us chuckle, hahah.
All that and more. We’re quite a conglomeration of freaks, if you will, hahah. We also have a few phytanthropes (the therian community’s term for a plant soul), shapeshifters, and other things that just can’t really be given a label. It’s roughly 50/50 between humans (or people who appear human but have a different label), and people that don’t look human at all (so like animals, dragons, that sort).
Feel free to ask any other questions if you like.
Well I am happy I made you all laugh.
If I think of anything I will ask.
My path primarily works with Dragons and other mythical beast. I work with crystals and metals as well.
Oh a side note for all of you. When I use the word you like this “you”. It means I am using it by it’s plural definition. As it makes things easier on me, as it took me a very long time to learn to read and spell, as I do that phonetically. Also If I forget to put it like this while talking to “you”, please understand that is how I am using it for you.
Also if you have any questions for me feel free to ask. I tend to be very busy, especially this time of year, but I will get back to “you”.
No worries, English is silly that way. We have no issue with someone just using “you” for us, whether in " or not. We just assume they mean plural and give the benefit of the doubt. Even then, it’s not a big deal to us if they don’t mean it that way. But thanks for clarifying anyway, we appreciate that you care.
Dragons, you say? Well, you’ve piqued our interest. Mind telling us a bit more about your practice, either here or in a PM, when you’ve got the time? Don’t worry if you’re slow to respond, we really should be doing more stuff off the internet right now, hahah.
Would be happy to, and yes I will when I have some time.
Lol meet too. Hope to get back to “you” soon.
@Lady_Eva We’re not able to PM you, would you mind PMing us, please? Whenever you’ve got the time.
Welp things got crazy on my end. I will get back to “you” this Thursday. Don’t worry I am doing fine, it seems everyone around me is having the universe taking a shat on them. It wouldn’t be too bad but I live with a few of these people.
Hahah, you aren’t the only one. We wish you well!
The result of a pact or curse (those are usually the only ones that pass on generationally) has historically been referred to as a Loup Garoup. Those are the dangerous cases of the Phsychosis in modern medicine and some legends even go so far as to say they actually transform in the physical into a wolf like creature. The text book werewolf that can only change on the full moon and loses all humanity for those 3 or so nights each month is usually the result of a curse. A pact would usually result in the ability to transform at will and retain some small portion of human Intellect to govern the beastial powers gained via transformation.