Something that has been rolling around in my mind for quite some time is the fact that there are some entities that we work with and gain knowledge and help from and they are considered demons. Now to is they are not demons although we call them demons they are more like angels that hold similar spiritual and political views to ourselves. These are not to be confused with psychotic entities that enjoy and feed off people’s missery and fear. Now from our point fear is to be conquered and our demons seem to agree, now this makes a clear distinction between our demons and psychotic entities that the RHP calls or labels demons.
I’m. well, aware that the RHP view on things is anything outside their belief system human or non physical entity is demonic. Let’s look at Lucifer for example, now to us of course he represents the spirit of resistance to tyrrany enlightenment and the light it’s self. Now I’m sure each of us at some point has had to kick the crap out of some jerk entity. Now, I see the difference between lhp and RHP is in RHP you ask the spirits to get rid of the entity for you and protect you but in the LHP if you ask a spirit for help it will fight by your side but not do it for you. In my latest work this is exactly what my story is about as to make that clear distinction. Our demons are not psychotic entities but are simply entities that share our philosophy of personal strength and empowerment, independence and feeling OK about feeling good about yourself. Many view the LHP as evil but it’s not and as a matter of fact quite the opposite. I think promoting a sense of helplessness and dependance is evil. I think blind obedience is evil, I also think psychotic jerk entity that wants you to feel helpless and afraid is the exact opposite of what our demons want for us. Perhaps it’s because LHP is OK with revenge as a form of justice and RHP is more about being a doormat and u what I know is that allowing yourself to be walked all over is not good for you or the people walking on you. Psychotic entities are not our spirits and perhaps we should come up with new terminology what do you all think?
An addendum thought I had was that I noticed Lucifer loves charity and helping the less fortunate rise above their situation and succeed, which of course is the purpose of charity to help those less fortunate get back on their feet. You don’t leave your comrades in arms to die you give them first aide and help them get back in the fight ( my fellow veterans can understand that one.) I believe that like ourselves our demons are misunderstood and people have a tendency to fear what they don’t understand. LHP has nothing to do with evil and everything to do with personal power and accountability.
I agree with you almost completely but I wonder what an example of a psychotic entity would be? Yahweh or Allah?
That could be a good one. I was kind of thinking about smaller less famous but that would be a good example of a well known one.
That could be a good one. I was kind of thinking about smaller less famous but that would be a good example of a well known one.[/quote] I also think of shadow people and things of that nature.
That could be a good one. I was kind of thinking about smaller less famous but that would be a good example of a well known one.[/quote] I also think of shadow people and things of that nature.[/quote]
That’s a good one as well.
That could be a good one. I was kind of thinking about smaller less famous but that would be a good example of a well known one.[/quote] I also think of shadow people and things of that nature.[/quote]
That’s what I thought he was referring to, since those are usually the kind of demons people think of when they refer to demons.
Man…I’m gonna have to get back to this topic when I got off work
[quote=“AdamThoth, post:1, topic:9117”]…
Psychotic entities are not our spirits and perhaps we should come up with new terminology what do you all think?[/quote]
I more or less agree with this sentiment. The word “demon” has a very negative connotation to anyone outside of the occult and is extremely misleading for them. That’s why I try to stick to using words like “spirits” or “entities” instead, especially when I’m referring to a “demon.”
And regarding the outside perception that the LHP is evil…the most frequently used terminology tends to imply that. People here like to say things like “the powers of darkness,” and the “dark this” or “dark that.” The “dark gods,” “dark arts,” and so on and so forth. Even though the label “dark” means something totally different to you, outside of the LHP it’s usually synonymous with “evil.” What throws me for a loop is that everyone knows that. Everyone here knows words like “dark” and “demon” imply negative, evil things. So if we don’t like that people misunderstand us and our spirits, why does it seem like we’re going out of our way to make them think exactly [b]that?[/b]
Most of us humans tends to label everything to separate ourselves from others, to separate others from others, and that can be practical and even educational in most instances. Even some spirits, deities and entities have been labeled, for better and sometimes even for worse.
As I see it, labeling have it’s limits, because our perception and interpretation doesn’t always match the stories, the myths, the legends and the description of a specific spirit. Sure, there might be a few “traits” that differentiate one from another, but then what? Maybe we don’t ask the right questions:
What DEFINES a psychotic entity?
Is it by their actions?
What drives it, motivates it?
Did their past experiences define the title and label of being called “psychotic”?
Is it addictive of certain currents?
Isn’t it a possibility that any spirit can be misunderstood, and more than often lives up to myths, legends, expectations of what we think of them to be? Does our personal and individual perception, and interpretations of them DEFINE their true nature, their true self?
A spirit doesn’t evolve or ascend with us, if we limiting them through our own limits of how we perceive them. That’s how I see this.
[quote=“succupedia, post:9, topic:9117”]Most of us humans tends to label everything to separate ourselves from others, to separate others from others, and that can be practical and even educational in most instances. Even some spirits, deities and entities have been labeled, for better and sometimes even for worse.
As I see it, labeling have it’s limits, because our perception and interpretation doesn’t always match the stories, the myths, the legends and the description of a specific spirit. Sure, there might be a few “traits” that differentiate one from another, but then what? Maybe we don’t ask the right questions:
What DEFINES a psychotic entity?
Is it by their actions?
What drives it, motivates it?
Did their past experiences define the title and label of being called “psychotic”?
Is it addictive of certain currents?
Isn’t it a possibility that any spirit can be misunderstood, and more than often lives up to myths, legends, expectations of what we think of them to be? Does our personal and individual perception, and interpretations of them DEFINE their true nature, their true self?
A spirit doesn’t evolve or ascend with us, if we limiting them through our own limits of how we perceive them. That’s how I see this.[/quote]
That’s a very good point. Since the existences of many spirits are created and/or defined by OUR beliefs and perceptions, if you truly expect a spirit to harm you, it probably will. But I’m not sure this same principle applies to shadow people, since it seems that they exist independent of human belief. And stories of evil spirits seem to go all the way back… Or perhaps the evil spirits are just very old - their primitively and simplistic behavior could indicate that they were created by primitive and simplistic beliefs; they would have no trouble clinging to existence since the collective consciousness of humanity has always had a strong belief in evil entities with one track minds. There might even be enough collective belief for them to manifest and wreak havoc in the lives of staunch atheists.
As for the “demons” that we work with, our high-functioning spirits, if you want a new label how about Eminems? Since they are whatever we think they are! Get it?? Like the song…?
…ok, I’ll just see myself out.
Cause I am whatever you say I am if I wasnt then why would I say I am! 
I think that depends on the intention of the spirit, rather than what we expect from it’s presence.
But I'm not sure this same principle applies to shadow people, since it seems that they exist independent of human belief. And stories of evil spirits seem to go all the way back... Or perhaps the evil spirits are just very old - their primitively and simplistic behavior could indicate that they were created by primitive and simplistic beliefs; they would have no trouble clinging to existence since the collective consciousness of humanity has always had a strong belief in evil entities with one track minds. There might even be enough collective belief for them to manifest and wreak havoc in the lives of staunch atheists.
Doesn’t all spirits exists independently of what we believe in? Egregores and servitors might be the exception here. As I see it, there’s two forms of existence: Inner Existence - Independent Consciousness - and Outer Existence - by Acknowledgement Of Others. We, as humans and magicians, also exist through acknowledgement by others. I wouldn’t exist for you, unless you allready heard of me, right? It’s existence through affirmation.
As for the "demons" that we work with, our high-functioning spirits, if you want a new label how about Eminems? Since they are whatever we think they are! Get it?? Like the song..?
How about reversing that sentence to: They are whatever they think they are? Just a food for thought. 
[quote=“succupedia, post:12, topic:9117”]I think that depends on the intention of the spirit, rather than what we expect from it’s presence.
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Doesn’t all spirits exists independently of what we believe in? Egregores and servitors might be the exception here. As I see it, there’s two forms of existence: Inner Existence - Independent Consciousness - and Outer Existence - by Acknowledgement Of Others. We, as humans and magicians, also exist through acknowledgement by others. I wouldn’t exist for you, unless you allready heard of me, right? It’s existence through affirmation.
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How about reversing that sentence to: They are whatever they think they are? Just a food for thought. ;)[/quote]
Well, that’s one school of thought. I guess? I hate to be redundant, but I’m still a newbie, so my opinion here is basically armchair sorcery.
But there’s another school of thought that says all spirits were created by humanity. And another that says most are thought forms but some do appear to pre-date the existence of humans.
However, it seems that regardless of the way you look at it human consciousness can still shape the spirits. Take for example Astaroth, who is a demonization of Astarte, who is herself the Hellenization of Ishtar. As I understand it, you can evoke any of these incarnations; I don’t know if there is any significant difference between Ishtar & Astarte, there is a chasm between those two and Astaroth. (I’m going to double check that, I may have to come back to correct that statement) So even though Ishtar MAY have existed before and independent of humanity, Astaroth did not and furthermore, the form and function of Ishtar was modified by the beliefs of Christians. You CAN still summon Ishtar in all her original glory - but that still hinges upon YOUR intentions and desires.
I may come back in a couple hours to add links to videos by mages with more credibility than I. And I suppose it’s only fair that I also point out that I’ve come across people who don’t believe Astaroth and Ishtar are linked at all, but then why do those two spirits say they’re linked? And do they say something different to the people who don’t believe they’re linked?
It is my belief, as outlined in this post of mine [url=http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/i-am-yahweh-and-using-language-as-a-tool-to-tap-into-latent-divine-power/]http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/i-am-yahweh-and-using-language-as-a-tool-to-tap-into-latent-divine-power/[/url] that all entities, spirits, what have you are egregories, created by the collective consciousness to function as aspects of the power and knowledge of the source.
And so, it’s my earnest belief that entities don’t exist until I evoke them. And so, they are whatever I want, if my paradigm sees some spirits as malicious demonic entities, then that’s what I will manifest.
“Shadow people” aren’t what AdamThoth is describing. They aren’t “psychotic entities”, you could say they’re what humans could be, if they tried.
It’s a filter.
The truth is we don’t care whether or not men misunderstand.
This isn’t about “bringing magic to the people of the world”. This is about “keeping it from fools”.
This is correct. Labeling an entity does little to assist in understanding said entity.
Isn't it a possibility that any spirit can be misunderstood, and more than often lives up to myths, legends, expectations of what we think of them to be?
This can happen, yes. Expectations tend to define reality in subtle ways.
Does our personal and individual perception, and interpretations of them DEFINE their true nature, their true self?
No.
A spirit doesn't evolve or ascend with us, if we limiting them through our own limits of how we perceive them. That's how I see this.
For some that’s true, for most that is not.
Pretty much.
Egregores and servitors might be the exception here.
Generally speaking, they are.
As I see it, there's two forms of existence: Inner Existence - Independent Consciousness - and Outer Existence - by Acknowledgement Of Others. We, as humans and magicians, also exist through acknowledgement by others. I wouldn't exist for you, unless you allready heard of me, right? It's existence through affirmation.
Correct, however, it’s a step deeper than that- our condition as humans is solely a product of “outer existence” as it were. Upon birth, we may assemble in an inordinate amount of realities to inhabit, however, the people in our early lives “show” us where to place our assemblage point.
In other words, we’re only born human because we’re told that we are.
And that school is wrong. No leeway on that one, all things have creators, yes, but humans are not the creators of all.
And another that says most are thought forms but some do appear to pre-date the existence of humans.
Everything has a creator.
However, it seems that regardless of the way you look at it human consciousness can still shape the spirits. Take for example Astaroth, who is a demonization of Astarte, who is herself the Hellenization of Ishtar.
Names are virtually meaningless. Did the spirits themselves say they are related in such a way?
Whether or not the demon existed before the word morphed is out of the question, because all things exist at all times.
They simply slapped a label on it.
That doesn’t mean the variation itself was never conceived of before humanity.
I may come back in a couple hours to add links to videos by mages with more credibility than I. And I suppose it's only fair that I also point out that I've come across people who don't believe Astaroth and Ishtar are linked at all, but then why do those two spirits say they're linked? And do they say something different to the people who don't believe they're linked?
Astaroth is just the dark version of Astarte. It’s pretty simple.
Psycho Sorcerer - “The Science Behind Magic and the Occult”
He takes a non-spiritual, non-supernatural point of view, so many people here will disagree with him on a fundamental level. Nevertheless, you may find him worth your time anyway. For the purpose of our current discussion you can jump to 26:07 if you’d like to skip his discussion of HIS personal theory on how magic works.
Though you may disagree with his belief that magic is more psychological than supernatural, he uses the same techniques and concepts in mostly the same ways, I think. He also seems to have a fairly deep knowledge of magic and some interesting insights. And he IS open minded to the idea that there could be a supernatural element, as he goes over in this video discussing things he CAN’T explain: https://youtu.be/Sg5b0HvnbYU
EA Koetting - “Why Would A Hellfire Demon HELP You and BETRAY Others?”
EA talks about the reality/existence/ creation of spirits relying on one’s observation of them, but also says that this DOES NOT mean that spirits don’t exist independently of us. Frankly, the content of this video - the concepts discussed - is either half BS, poorly explained, or just beyond my current understanding. My money is on the latter, but I’m not dismissing the former two just yet.
I think EA talks more about this subject and addresses various issues and angles in a number of other videos, but his library of work is quite large and I’m not going to sift through them all for a couple snippets here and there.
Well, I’ll stop rambling. I just wanted to provide examples of different points of view on the existence of spirits. I know most here are familiar with EA’s work, but I hope these are all informative anyway ;D
“Shadow people” aren’t what AdamThoth is describing. They aren’t “psychotic entities”, you could say they’re what humans could be, if they tried.
It’s a filter.
The truth is we don’t care whether or not men misunderstand.
This isn’t about “bringing magic to the people of the world”. This is about “keeping it from fools”.[/quote]
You might want to go back and reread the OP. This thread was started because AdamThoth is troubled by how “our demons” are perceived. So he does care whether or not men understand. And whereas AdamThoth isn’t talking about Shadow People, the people who misunderstand our demons likely are - and it’s those people’s thoughts were the focus of the first few comments.
And “Astaroth is the dark version…?” What does “dark” mean here? What does “version” to? I mean, yes, it’s implied that Astaroth is a different version of Ishtar…I think I covered that pretty well but maybe not. But the point is that Astaroth didn’t appear until Christians wanted to demonize Astarte. (I also implied that the naming of Ishtar to Astarte was likely meaningless) And since Astaroth didn’t appear until then, and the there seems to be ample evidence to support that spirits have a malleable, even mutable nature, it’s reasonable to believe that the dark version of Ishtar didn’t exist until called into existence by those who needed a villain.
But there is always the idea that everything that ever will exist, and everything that will ever happen, already has and always has.
With all that said, I do respect your beliefs and they are duly noted. I’m still absorbing as much information as I can, so I appreciate the different opinions! We might have to start a separate thread if we stay on this topic though, we’re kinda hijacking Adam’s thread here 
I know, I wasn’t talking about Adam in particular. The “we” was in reference to people that rally under similar banners. That’s what I almost always mean when I say “we” out of context.
And "Astaroth is the dark version..?" What does "dark" mean here? What does "version" to?
All entities have a light half and a dark half, a yang and a yin, because light and dark are the foundations of our universe. This one in particular, mind you.
Some entities have fused these halves and become “Grey Souls”, or the Colorless.
The darkness of Astarte is Astaroth, and the light of Astaroth is Astarte.
Thinking terribly hard on this tends to cause problems. Realize here that this may not distill properly in your perception, and account for that. The “fragmentary intelligences” law is built on a different logic than what most are used to.
I mean, yes, it's implied that Astaroth is a different version of Ishtar...I think I covered that pretty well but maybe not. But the point is that Astaroth didn't appear until Christians wanted to demonize Astarte. (I also implied that the naming of Ishtar to Astarte was likely meaningless) And since Astaroth didn't appear until then, and the there seems to be ample evidence to support that spirits have a malleable, even mutable nature, it's reasonable to believe that the dark version of Ishtar didn't exist until called into existence by those who needed a villain.
All things exist somewhere, all things don’t exist somewhere.
Astaroth wasn’t necessarily called into existence by the creation of his name, rather, I would wager that he entered the human reality tunnel that way.
Those are different things.
With all that said, I do respect your beliefs and they are duly noted. I'm still absorbing as much information as I can, so I appreciate the different opinions! We might have to start a separate thread if we stay on this topic though, we're kinda hijacking Adam's thread here :/
Eh, call em beliefs, call em whatever, this is what I know.
As for the topic- indeed, which is why I won’t say more on these things here. If you’d like to PM me and discuss the “physics” of this, feel free.
The darkness of Astarte is Astaroth, and the light of Astaroth is Astarte.
That must be why Baalzebub told me Astaroth and Astarte were “twins”
He was referring to the light and dark. Yin and yang. Cool beans 
[quote=“arianna, post:19, topic:9117”]The darkness of Astarte is Astaroth, and the light of Astaroth is Astarte.
That must be why Baalzebub told me Astaroth and Astarte were “twins”
He was referring to the light and dark. Yin and yang. Cool beans :)[/quote]
Yeah, “twin” gods often emphasize the two halves of one whole.