OT discussion about quantum physics etc

Interesting post but the part about the particle is absolutely false. The Uncertaintly Principle of quantum mechanics expressly prohibits such a scenario from ever happening. A particle can never be fully stationary because then you could calculate its exact velocity (momentum) and position at the same time. This goes against everything quantum physics stands for.

I think the OP might have been confused and mistakenly attributed the scenario to another well known effect of quantum physics known as the Observer Effect. Again, this attribution would be in error as well. Particles do NOT know they are being observed and no way do they change their behavior according to a perception they do not possess. Particles may, however, change their behavior due to the effect that measuring the particle has on the surrounding environment. But in no way, shape or form does a particle have any perception that it is being measured.


Definitely in for the cat fight. This thread is getting kind of spicy. :fire:

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@Quantum72 Everything is conscious.

Consciousness permeates all of reality.
It’s present in every particle and all psychical matter.

“panpsychist” has been adopted by many scientists, neuroscientist, philosopher’s, physicists etc.

As the prime observer, observes a electron acting exactly like a particle. Scientists understand consciousness is everywhere from humans, animals, bacteria, single cell organisms, particles, plant life etc.

There’s been more than one or two experiments on this, there is a lot to suggest that our observation does indeed affect reality.

To say otherwise would basically mean all of magick is useless.
As it is our intent, our desire, will and power pushed towards a goal for a particular outcome.

We shift our perception in ritual why do you think that is ?.

So when we change our perception we change the fibre of our reality.

See we constantly are projecting what we consider to be reality.

For example the brain creates colours that don’t actually exist on the spectrum of light, cherry red would be an example.

Also our brain fills in many other blanks, so what we are doing of course on a subconscious level is projecting these hallucinations before us we then accept them as reality.

So what is reality ?.

Most take it for what can be observed, perceived and measured if that’s the case illusion is also reality.

Project something in front of you from the mind it becomes reality.
EA Koetting spoke on the topic of Evocation he said something which I wholeheartedly agree with.

When we summon a spirit, we don’t command the spirit to come into this reality, we instead act as God commanding this reality to facilitate a coming of a impossibility to become a possibility momentarily.

EA Koetting also states the mastering evocation course, Evocation, Soul Travel and divination are altering of the observation and perception of the magician.

This in turn as we know we do these things actually causes changes in the real world.
That’s Magick science has touched on that yet, but I’m sure as you know we make remarkable changes.

So what’s to suggest that a conscious particle isn’t aware it’s being observed ?.
Furthermore why do you believe it doesn’t know our intention ?.
If that were true then how can the whole of existence hear our intent even on the subatomic scale and then shift and give us our manifestion.

Everything in this world possessing some degree of consciousness, so on ritual we enter a trance state, expand our field of consciousness into all that is interwoven in reality.

There by our consciousness is intertwined into the web of all consciousness in this world.
When we think of our intention of the ritual then, this is a part of our consciousness and what we are intertwined into, those consciousnesses can pick up on that intention even particles.

We do things in Magick which is beyond scientific explanation, individuals don’t like to hear that but it’s true.

For example magickal feats like Transmutation, Objectile Transformation, Levitation etc.

The entirety of the world of consciousness, we can implant our consciousness into it and commune with it, showing it out intention.

This is one of the many factors which cause changes.

Of course there is loads more about this, many more experiments which were done to show validity that our observation affects reality.

To say otherwise would be to believe that Magick is futile and doesn’t cause change, but it does.


Muh dude
Magic doesn’t give a fuck about Quantum Physics let alone what it stands for.
It was here before ©Q.P. came about :rofl:



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My goodness, did you just say that magic existed BEFORE quantum physics!?!?!? Thats like saying man existed before God (or Gods, whichever ones you believe in.) The laws that created and shaped the universe are based on quantum physics. And magick is part of the universe. The existence of alternate dimensions/universes is based upon quantum principles. And by the very fact that you are typing responses on a computer to an online forum while denying quantum physics, you are contradicting yourself! Computers would never exist if the laws of quantum mechanics weren’t proven sound. Neither would GPS, modern automobiles, smartphones, basically anything that utilizes a silicon chipset. And the entire science of quantum mechanics is based on the Uncertainty Principle. Which renders the OP’s assertions invalid from the start when he mentions a stationary particle, which cannot exist. There has NEVER, EVER been any experiment conducted in all of human history which involved a completely stationary particle. NEVER!!!

Modern science dumps the side of occult from its its history, but its there. Newton, Telsa and da Vinci. Just to name a few.


Oh, perhaps the science is wrong and valid only on a certain level of existence and past that higher laws take precedence. Perhaps you need to think of what exactly magick is and you will see that is a sense quantum physics and magick are the same but quantum physics in its limited interpretation is not the whole of the truth but only a piece in the larger puzzle. Higher laws take precedence over the lower if properly utilized this is how we get all kinds of fuckery with reality.

The modern practice of science is limited only to three dimensional existence and what can be observed from that limited view point. It is akin to saying the earth is flat because you are on its surface. This is true for quantum physics even the work trying to deal with higher dimensions is still limited by this viewpoint while through the practice of magick we get a much more complete view from many dimensions and manipulations of the default reality.


:point_up:t2: This is correct @anon47923162.

If we rely completely on the measurement of physics and science we loose the grander picture.

There was a line in the movie Lucy which states.

“All we’ve learned is that 1+1=2 when in actuality, it does not, there are no numbers.”

This is a good line as it outlines how us as humans bring everything down to our understanding, by analysing.

This causes the totality of that ‘thing’ to become watered down.
Just like the native Americans said
“There is spirit in everything” this was metaphorical for consciousness in all things.

They believed that we all shared communication with eachother, like one cell would share information with another.

If we look at the hypothesis of observational reality, you say the experiment wasn’t correct.
Does that then disprove it ?.

No it doesn’t, when you detach from the mathematical inclined way of thinking you enter a realm of limitless possibilities.

Dimensions that are unfathomable, realms made of light, others of energy, others with sound, subatomic vibrations. Some realms are composed of all of it.

Understand the source for example, the stream of its power is described as a ocean of light and sound which flows through the formative plane.

When this ocean moves further away from the formative plane and source, it changes and Adapts.

It moves down to become the abyss, the all encompassing darkness, this can be viewed as dark energy or dark matter for example.

Then that energy moves further away into the mental planes and becomes consciousness.
This ocean moves further down into the casual realm becoming memory.
Then down to astral were its energy, the Futher this steam moves away.

The energetic vibrations lower in frequency and take on matter, the low dense vibrations as we know matter isn’t solid.

So we can look at this, it’s truly a marvel to behold. It could in one way be considered a hypothesis by science if you’d like.

However they’d find no way to physically measure this, by mathematical law how ever creation isn’t governed by mathematics.

So what I’m saying is, let’s say the science is just a hypothesis, does that take away from its validity nope. Many things have be considered a theory and then later on considered as fact.

Of course what’s real for you, becomes you’re reality. What’s real for me is my own reality, we each have what I termed as the personal sphere.

Think of it as you’re auric field spread across reality, when you perceive it in a certain manner it creates a alternate reality overlapped with ours.

So there are almost infinite numbers of reality overlapped with the same reality.
If we are going to decode this we go right to the source of it all.

Instead of sitting in a lab, ancient civilization’s like the Egyptian’s, Mesopotamians etc.
They knew and had knowledge of cells.

These weren’t what you would call scientists as modern scientists would term it.
They were priests, shamans, Magis, apart of the white and black cloth of the brotherhood and sisterhood.

Science is slowly discovering what Magick revealed to us so long ago.


That’s right

Another thing.

Asking what came first is complicated one.
For example you stated that’s like saying man existed before the gods.

Yeah in a way we sort of did, if you believe that god’s took form after we began to observe certain forces.

When a man first prayed to the flame, the god of fire rises. Which one came first ?.

We all spawned at the same time, were are all emanations of limitlessness.
Man and god are one in the same, all came at the same time.

It’s like Azazel stated to EA.

“I have never existed until this very moment when you call me into being, then again neither have you. You ask if I’m real, I am as real as the world around you which is not real at all”.

Destroy the grand illusion and just be an observer to experience the totality of all things, we cannot do that until we detach from thought, ego and belief.

Just ride the wave of creation and allow it to fry the fuck out of the mind.


Rubs hands together
Lets do it again boys

That’s true too :ok_hand:

Trying to arguing these points I once believed was a good thing, maybe we’d learn from eachother in a debate.

Now at my state of development of ascent, I know understand that all things are a jumble of yes and no and maybe.

No one is right and yet we all are.


Very true :ok_hand:

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Becomes a bit of a mind fuck doesn’t it.
However I’ve come to learn life isn’t only what you make it, but so is creation and existence.


So you’re saying that magick works without any regard for the laws of physics. So why single out quantum physics? We can assume that you’re claiming that magick is all-powerfull and works without regard for other laws of the universe as well, such as thermodyamics, gravity, inertia, conservation of matter, etc.

So you’re saying magick can routinely make the impossible, possible. If you’re holding a bowling ball and let go of it, which direction is it going to drop? The laws of physics and gravity dictate that it will drop downwards, towards the center of the Earth. But you say that magick “doesn’t give a fuck” about quantum physics. So what magick do you know of that can make the bowling ball rocket upwards towards the sky? Your statement that magick “doesn’t give a fuck” is obviously false and borne more out of your need to portray a false sense of bravado rather than out of rational thought. You may want to refrain from practicing this type of wreckless bravado if you wish to reclaim any modicum of credibility in the future.

So it seems as if my pointing out the error of the OP’s particle contention has ignited a spirited debate about the relationship between physics and magick. I don’t necessarily disagree with the OP’s subsequent arguements. This kind of stuff, vibrations, energy, consciousness, etc can be debated forever and we as mere mortals will probably never know the true answers. What I would like to directly point out is that my main contention has not been discussed, much less disproven. The OP’s fatal error is the reference to an experiment that never existed. A stationary particle would be directly contradictory to the main principle of quantum theory. If you guys want to further debate this topic, at least:

  1. Site the experiment in which a particle was observed by physicists as being completely stationary.


  1. Present your arguments on how a stationary particle can exist in contrary to the Uncertainty Principle.


  1. Present your argument that disproves quantum theory.

I can state with complete confidence that no one here will provide any sort of coherent reply to any of the 3 points stated above.

I have looked at Magic from a rational thought perspective and have understood fully how it’s suppose to work…

Then I’ve seen it in action and saw how it actually works

The two ain’t the same
Have you seen a person suddenly have their organs shut down and die 2 weeks after a curse was cast?
I have.

According to QP magic should not be ablet to do that…
But magic didn’t give a fuck and did it anyway

Have you see someone develop extreme boils that didn’t recover no matter what was done to stop it?
I have.

QP is shit in regards to the stuff me and other magicians have seen.

This “false sense of bravado” is not false at all but borne out of shit I caused that defied your Quantum Physics.

So please, child, sit down and cast magic and see how well your Physics hold up.


Funny enough they have proven both telepathy and telekinesis so yes it is possible for the bowling ball to fly off in some random direction if a skilled practitioner wanted it to. They also have not really found good answers for how those two powers work either. Same for remote viewing.


We can make that bowling ball go anywhere we wish, with enough practice

Modern science is nothing more then a method. It was born out of Europeans trying to reclaim the ancient glory that we once had as a species in long dead socities.

Our sacred libraries were burned, our priests murdered and everything we had lost to in the winds of war.

We are the dirty little secret modern science wish to forget. Occultists gave you much of your theories. Mr. Kendall is still young, and his theories need to time to mature.

Compare the ancient way of occult-science they suvived for thousands of years and didn’t kill off the planet vs. the modern split mind insanity science-consumer driven model that is quickly killing everything on planet Earth.

I would suggest you read this book. There as not been a major break through in science for a long time in truth.
The End of Science: Facing the Limits of Knowledge in the Twilight of the Scientific Age

Reality is truly bizarre.