Heard an interesting theory on where demons originate, interesting because I’ve never heard it before.
Basically it says they are an independent class of Tulpa.
A servitor is a thoughtform powered by your attention.
An Egregore is a thoughtform powered by the attention of multiple people.
In both cases, these constructs require the attention of people to sustain them.
A demon then is basically the same type of thoughtform, only it runs off the residual attention of sacrifices. When someone dies horribly, it somehow takes a bit of their attention to keep as it’s own. Which means it doesn’t need anyone to power it with attention, it has it’s own.
As a third class of thoughtform, it’s fascinating. Although I’m not sure that explains their knowledge base.
Think of any spirit as a bridge between people that also exist as an aspect of themselves. They are both created and simultaneously contain living energy. So they are very real despite what some may think as they contain the energetic memory of the living, the dead as well as those unborn.
What about the possibility that demons pre exist humans and that humans have nothing to do with their creation? Why are so many people resistant to this idea? It seems like it is an attempt to fit the origin of demonsi nto the preconceived idea that humans are the top of the food chain?
I was more interested in the idea of it being a new type of servitor. In theory, I should be able to reprogram them to my own purposes if that’s all they really are.
I’m used to thinking of them as something that predates humans, but what if? Who knows how far back the history of humanity goes. I find the idea that there could be caveman created demons fascinating.
Honestly, sometimes I wonder if people consider all demons to be human thoughtforms because they figure, if demons were not created by us then they had to have been created by something else which gets too many people thinking back to the possibilities of a creator god, which we know most magicians try to avoid dwelling over, since many of us are atheist or agnostic or believe in other ideas of how existence came to be besides creationism.
So a thoughtform, sometimes to me, seems like a creative way to surpass the need to dwell on creationism by a god of some sort and instead, focusing on imagination and human creativity. I know we do have ability to create thoughtform, but some demons will plainly state they were not created by us and/or were here before our time. Surely, we can’t all just be linking up to the same delusion when we are told that?
You sure it’s not that we’re just conforming to the idea that’s been drilled into us since birth that we are powerless beings? Human created demons fits into the Logos theory of fractal creation.
I suppose it comes down to who you want to believe. I’ve been hearing cases where the more time time demonic things spend on our plane, the more they forget where they came from. You get possession cases where the only reason the thing is hanging on is because it doesn’t know what will happen if it lets go. (Hear that a lot on the Behind the Paranormal podcasts)
In my personal opinion I think not just Catholicism, but any religion centres around humans being so goddamn ‘special’.
Now I am a huge fan if everything sci fi and I absolutely love multiverse and/or multispecies book/film/game universes like SW, ST, Mass Effect game series etc.
I’m about to sound ‘homeless man in the street with tinfoil on their head’ crazy, but why are we so hung up on not just being the only ones in the universe, but also being the only ones capable of emotion and of power required to create any thought forms or anything energy based?
And what if there are, indeed, paralel universes and realities to this one - in how many of them we don’t even exist and these thought forms could be created by someone else? If we are to presume demons experience no real concept of time, why do they necessarily have to exist just in this part or te universe and/or just in this version of the universe?
In my personal opinion I think not just Catholicism, but any religion centres around humans being so goddamn ‘special’.
Now I am a huge fan if everything sci fi and I absolutely love multiverse and/or multispecies book/film/game universes like SW, ST, Mass Effect game series etc.
I’m about to sound ‘homeless man in the street with tinfoil on their head’ crazy, but why are we so hung up on not just being the only ones in the universe, but also being the only ones capable of emotion and of power required to create any thought forms or anything energy based?
And what if there are, indeed, paralel universes and realities to this one - in how many of them we don’t even exist and these thought forms could be created by someone else? If we are to presume demons experience no real concept of time, why do they necessarily have to exist just in this part or te universe and/or just in this version of the universe?[/quote]
Put simply,we are special,because we are absolutely,and completely blessed.
We are in a state so amazing,by just existing,that everyone will look at me funny when I start saying this,but I absolutely believe that we are blessed.Not as in our lives are worth more than other species’s,or we are absolutely there.
There are intelligences out there,in immaterial realms,with thoughts,feelings,desires,fears,ambitions,etc. that we take so much pride in,that we argue set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom,even though man is an animal if there ever was one.
However,whatever they do,up there,has no real and permanent effect.It isn’t physical,it doesn’t feel real,it doesn’t seem to BE.If that makes sense.
The strife to go back up there is quite opposite to the left hand path,and is the RHP psychic escapism that we all seem to oppose.The Source’s energy MATERIALIZES more and more as it passes through various planes,until it finally arrives here.Who knows,there may be some SUPER PHYSICAL plane in front of us that we don’t know about,yet still,striving to go BACK is REGRESSION and NOT ASCENT.
Then there are animals,who are in this physical world.Yet they live in a Darwinistic ‘‘dog eats dog’’ type of world,where all their resources need to be put for survival,and they do not make things like art,civilizations,and such.They act on instinct,and impulse.
Animals have sentience,and I would venture to say even a degree of sapience.They absolutely do have emotions,thoughts,desires fears and such.But because they always need to focus on not dying,they simply haven’t put any such faculties to good use.
And spirits do have an effect on this world,but it is subtle.Most people can’t even see them!
And we,as humans,exist in that intersection,of matter and energy,of what is and what could be,we can use magic,and control its use,we can make things happen,and control what happens,we exist here,and that is what makes us so incredibly important.
We can think,and we can do,we can be and not be…
But then again,it’s not like we Earthlings are the only humans out there,much less the only sapient life out there.Trust me when I tell you that there’s so much more.And I would really prefer not to say more on that.
It’s like a three-year-old who sees his house for the first time.And he thinks that it’s beautiful and awesome and everything.That house is such a hugely insignificant fraction of the world,and all your view can say is that you don’t matter.At all.None of us do.At all.
Such a cheerful thought,and such a bright contrast.I love it!
(And trust me,you’re not even close to tinfoil hat crazy…we’ve all heard much stranger things,and done much stranger things.You’re not crazy until you’ve worked with Them.)
Isn’t it logically possible that, regardless of what us LHP folks “like”, humans were in fact created by some god and that that entity requires something from us? Isn’t it possible that demons are in fact superior to us?
According to my own experiences humans and demons both were created. That being said both are just patterns that have a tendency to emerge in reality, in the grande scheme of things neither is any older then the other, though in this reality tunnel demons would be older since they are a more basic pattern that needed to emerge in this reality first for it to work properly. Creation is just a method of bringing a pattern into a specific reality.
As for who is superior, your asking the wrong question, demons are best at doing what demons are supposed to do and humans are best at doing what humans are supposed to do. You don’t ask an electrician to do your plumbing.
from what ive been reading theres a flow of different energies from different planets that influence the manifestations on earth. the planet venus has a spiritual city called retz. in the dimensional levels of perception theres huge alien demonic,supernal beings.some people call these beings demons.in my youth i used to think darker infernal spirits were more powerfull but as i got older and started reading for my self i started realizing that these so called dark groups like the Jos and other authors steal ideas and teachings from new age magicians like Franz Bardon and Julius Evola. deeper occultism never agrees with christians and calls itself dark or sinister.check out the occult group The Aetherius Society.
Logical is a wide variety of things. It includes common knowledge(the sky is blue),common sense(if people don’t eat they get hungry),and things that can easily be deduced(camels belong in the same taxonomic group as cows because of similar hooves).
That said, people do seem to like to serve and be slaves,worshipping theoretical ideals as factual AND instilling in themselves the belief that they could never become these things.
But the belief that we were all created by something and must serve it out of gratitude? I don’t see that as very logical. At least not unless you grew up in a family that imposed such a view in a world that did the same. JMO.
My idea that humans are a sort of egregore is based on my own experience. The same could apply to most things though so I think that everything being a creation of something else sort of seems to be the standard. Though this doesn’t nessecerily men you have to bow to whatever made you. Though I don’t think I’m there yet a day will come when I surpass the bing that made me. The one thing I’m not sure if it is created or not is what I refer to as the multiversal intelligence which is the intelligence of reality itself. But who knows something could’ve made that too.
also the people and groups that call these psychic alien beings demons often borrow and use teachings from the new age. example Joy of satan claims to borrow alot from Franz Bardon in their teachings on their web site. E.a koetting refrences New age spiritualist Julius Evola as an influence. often times these so called all knowing darker groups have a tough time coming up with their own excercises and psychic practices that are original.maybe these beinngs arent demons at all,since new age practices and teachings are more complex and refer to the so called demons as angels and alien psychic beings.
[quote=“Arcane, post:9, topic:6852”][quote=“Subject_Zero, post:8, topic:6852”]I absolutely agree with this.
In my personal opinion I think not just Catholicism, but any religion centres around humans being so goddamn ‘special’.
Now I am a huge fan if everything sci fi and I absolutely love multiverse and/or multispecies book/film/game universes like SW, ST, Mass Effect game series etc.
I’m about to sound ‘homeless man in the street with tinfoil on their head’ crazy, but why are we so hung up on not just being the only ones in the universe, but also being the only ones capable of emotion and of power required to create any thought forms or anything energy based?
And what if there are, indeed, paralel universes and realities to this one - in how many of them we don’t even exist and these thought forms could be created by someone else? If we are to presume demons experience no real concept of time, why do they necessarily have to exist just in this part or te universe and/or just in this version of the universe?[/quote]
We are in a state so amazing,by just existing,that everyone will look at me funny when I start saying this,but I absolutely believe that we are blessed.Not as in our lives are worth more than other species’s,or we are absolutely there.
There are intelligences out there,in immaterial realms,with thoughts,feelings,desires,fears,ambitions,etc. that we take so much pride in,that we argue set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom,even though man is an animal if there ever was one.[/quote]
I was thinking also of (yes, I will say the word) - aliens. There might be being in this universe or other ones who have not only created a large part of the demons we know collectively as human race, but also ones we will never have the chance to encounter and experience due to physiological differences between us and the other probable organic forms capable of energy work. They might have emotions we simply cannot feel and do not perceive due to lacking certain organs, chemical processes int he brain etc.
Also what is life? We consider carbon and silicon based lifeforms to be alive, however perhaps we lack the knowledge, technology or perception organs to recognise other lifeforms that we do not consider to be alive, and even more so - intelligent.
I’m not saying we’re not special, I’m saying it’s VERY unlikely we’re the only special ones. Perhaps demons are not just created by us, perhaps demons are our mirror selves in other universes where it is possible or perhaps, demons ARE another type of life form that is very much physical, just not here.
I know I dip into theoretical physics a lot here, however science (as well as speculation of what we are yet to discover) and spiritual world are not mutually exclusive.
I know many people think it’s impossible to not have been created and some of the more intelligent christians will ask their parents “if we had to be created, who created god because he couldn’t have just come out of nowhere either?” and the parents always respond with, we aren’t supposed to understand it, we needed to be created because we humans are flawed and inferior and god is god, he is the supreme so he doesn’t need a creator and he is the only one who can exist without being created, you just have to have faith and know that we’re not supposed to understand that.
And christians will say the big bang theory and evolution sound completely stupid however, thinking from the other side of the spectrum the big bang theory doesn’t sound so crazy when you think about it. Stars (gases) colliding together forming intelligent creations, may sound dumb because how on earth could a bunch of gases join together and create a walking talking complex being capable of intelligent thought?
Okay well, spermies and eggs are able to join together and form us and those are essentially just sticky fluids and little balls of tissue so if we, complicated beings, can be formed from something so miniscule, then it’s purely plausible the universe, the earth or even multiple universes could have been formed by simple gases colliding together. Those gases could’ve been the universal equivilent to sperm and egg. I mean humans are severely flawed, too flawed to have been created by a supposed perfect god, seems to me like the world was most likely the result of an accidental fertilization between stars.
Arcane, I think that we are equivocating on the definition of “logical.” It sounds like your definition is basically, “Valid Conclusion.” That is not the way that I am using that term. In fact, I did not use just that term. I combined it with “possible.” So I am defining that phrase as “something which is not self contradictory or against the facts.”
I (wrongly?) assumed that we would all agree that we do not truly know where demons came from. I (wrongly?) assumed that we all would agree that there is simply no hard data on that matter at all and that we were all just guessing. So I was merely pointing out that such a view as I put forth was not contradictory (i.e., not “internally inconsistent”) nor did it go against the facts (there really aren’t any “facts” on their origin).
My main point is that we in the LHP seem to very frequently and very overtly form our beliefs around what we “wish” were true. So to get back to my original point, it is logically possible (i.e. not self-contradictory or against the known facts) that we were created by gods and that they require something of us. I am not necessarily saying that I believe this, but it is in fact logically possible.
I just listened to Timothy’s latest audio recording on Black Magick. For being an intelligent guy who claims to be logical and scientific, he put forth a boat load of assumptions that would have made a fundamentalist baptist blush. He seems to be wearing a huge set of blinders that keep him from seeing a lot of these things. What he would probably call “conclusions” are nothing more than postulates he puts forth.
I just want us all to stay honest with our motives. We should just say, “It is possible that we were created slaves by a divine entity. If so, we owe him obedience. But I do not like that idea. So, due to a lack of certainty surrounding this whole topic, I am going to make up an explanation that is more in line with what I would prefer.”
I do agree with Jboy’s last post. Timothy is obviously highly intelligent however, to me, he seems a bit egocentric and possibly having loads of people compliment him on his intelligence didn’t help him over the years. Some people, when complimented too often, can get a bit of an ego and start assuming that all of their assumptions are correct without a doubt.
Now, that’s pretty common amongst most LHPer’s because most of us are intelligent because we think outside of the box so most of us do tend to get a big head on our shoulders when speaking with the mundanes so I’m not singling him out or anything. I’ve been guilty of being an arrogant bitch myself from time to time. Just pointing out that from speaking to Timothy myself on several occasions, he doesn’t like to be challenged over his views and will quickly respond in a harsh way then start ignoring you all together.
He is very anti-feminism and pro-masculine everything and I don’t much care for extreme feminists myself, but he seems to think that all women are lying backstabbing sluts who only use men to get babies and child support and if a woman like me just mentions that she is not feminist but doesn’t need a man to take care of her because she doesn’t wanna be viewed like a typical backstabbing bitch by the majority of men, he has a real hard time believing that and seemed to suggest to me that there are no acceptions to this stereotypes and I couldn’t possibly be a woman and actually be honest and independent at the same time.
I’m sorry but, it’s men like that, that are actually the reason why so many women turn out to be gay and end up hating men in the first place.
