If I am barely a first/second flame, but have been working evocation (just realized sigils should be burned when done), and do the lesson six evocation (after circle cast and watchtowers called, and blood on sigil), would this fail because I’m not a fifth flame holder?
Side question - anyone who can converse with spirits that know me, what do they feel my level is within OAA?
I am still going to use lesson material 1-6 in rituals this week, while mastering (or starting) one lesson (not sublessons) a day.
Probably not the purpose of this thread, but a question -
If I am barely a first/second flame, but have been working evocation (just realized sigils should be burned when done), and do the lesson six evocation (after circle cast and watchtowers called, and blood on sigil), would this fail because I’m not a fifth flame holder?
Side question - anyone who can converse with spirits that know me, what do they feel my level is within OAA?
Not really. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Is this some form or rank in an order?
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Yes … 18 flame lessons in Ordo Ascensum Aetyrnalus.
Oh.
They don’t have to be.
Practice evoking. You shouldnt let a book hold you back. All they are, is guiding points.
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Moved your questions here and bumping. 
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Are you talking about the Lessons of the 6th Flame? I checked my OAA and there is no evocation in that chapter, unless you mean the lesson on wandering spirits?
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Lesson 6 and lesson 10both have an evocation. Might be wandering spirits. I’m close to the second flame now
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If you are talking about Lesson 6, then no, you do not have to complete the previous Flames, because the lessons about the wandering spirits are direct excepts from Evoking Eternity, which you can use without having anything to do with the OAA.
If you are talking about consecrating the Seal of the Sworn Nights, and meeting your Guardian, then yes, you do need the previous Flames.
As for Lesson 10, there are three evocations. Sub Lessons 7 and 8 are to evoke any 3 spirits of your choice, so that can be done without the previous Flames, but sub lesson 9 would require the previous Flames because you have to evoke the Seven Sons of the Phoenix, which you encounter in one of the previous Flames, I believe.
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You are most welcome, mon ami!
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The reason why I’m so big on the OAA is because it is the only hardcopy LHP material I have. Shitloads of RHP books and printouts. But LHP … Nope, OAA is the only LHP resource of mine.
Also it seems to be the only structure I can look at … As a neophyte to magus training program.
The only thing I don’t see in it is ritual descriptions (minus evocation) and pattern magic, like pentagram and hexagram, etc.
Other than those its a solid resource.
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There is a wealth of information online, but I’m not always online.
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There is the possibility of using Magic of Light recipes in a dark fashion, or calling zodiac angels in an imbalanced manner, but that seems close to chaos magic which I am unfamiliar with.
I like the OAA stuff. It is pretty much the encapsulation of EA’s system. Each of his books is simply an expansion on the exercises.
The basics of Chaos Magick are pretty simple. Belief is a tool, and with it, you can reshape your reality. Peter Carol is seen as the father of modern Chaos Magick, and Austin Osman Spare the grandfather. Carol’s book Liber Null and Psychonaut are pretty much all you need. When you condense a sentence of intent down into a glyph, that is the most well known Chaos Magick technique, and it was created by Spare, who was an artist.
Chaos Magick, has nothing to do with actual chaos, or the void or whatnot, so don’t let the name confuse you. It’s name derives from the fact that it eschews the traditional ceremonial way of doing things, for a more modern, stripped down, dogma free framework (which doesn’t mean they don’t do full ritual magick, because they do. It just means that they make their own correspondences, and use anything they can invest full belief in to fuel it.)
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Well, of Grimoires I have, Book of Leaves, Abrasax, Gateways through Stone and Circle, The Osiris Scroll, The Golden Dawn, Ritual Magic Workbook, Shem Grimoire, Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires, Modern Magick, and OAA.
Modern Magick by Donald Michael Craig has everything you need to know to be a powerful magician. Yes, it’s Golden Dawn derived, and yes, there is a bit of moralizing in it, but it is a very good, step by step progression in Western Ceremonial Magick.
With that training under your belt, you can move onto any system and make it work for you.
Remember, even EA started with stuff like that. He performed the LBRP and the hexagram rituals and all that Golden Dawn stuff in his early years, before he was working with all the demons and things he’s currently known for. He even completed the Abramelin Ritual for Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, as he described in one of his books.
You can have three dozen LHP grimoires but they won’t do you a lick of good, if you’re not grounded in things like basic energy work, meditation, and so forth. The OAA stuff was initially meant for people already skilled in magick. To be accepted into the Order, they had tests you had to pass (I actually stumbled upon their website back in the day and saw the requirements, and that’s where I got my original flawed copy of Questing After Visions from).
i know everybody on here disses the RHP but the fact is there are very good training manuals out there that you shouldn’t ignore just because they are a bit fluffy. I have never seen a LHP grimoire that takes you from beginner to adept like Modern Magick. EA’s Works of Darkness is the closest. Frater UD’s two volume training system is really good too, but, again, it is Golden Dawn derived.
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I did sell some books for gas money which killed me … Twenty bucks for the big blue Crowley magick, diabolical, keys of ocat, and a qlippothic book. I guess Karlssons book counts as a LHP Grimoire, but you wrote a great point - that is a book meant for adepts, and people familiar with opening sigils.
If you were to work through Modern Magick, and I mean really work through it, by year’s end, you’d be a more powerful magician than probably 80% of the people on this forum. Very few people ever fully devote themselves to a training system. They would rather jump from book to book, trying things out here and there, and calling themselves magicians, than actually develop the skills necessary.
Following Franz Bardon’s training in Initiation Into Hermetics has the reputation of building incredibly powerful magicians. It’s slow, and tedious, but incredibly thorough. It moves from basic thought controlling to imbuing objects with intention, onward to evocation and beyond. I’ve read somewhere that it takes about 2 years to complete, but that those who do it are hard to surpass.
Opening sigils isn’t the be all and end all of techniques, my friend. In fact, Modern Magick doesn’t even cover it, if I remember correctly. What matters, is getting into the proper mind state, what EA calls the Theta/Gamma Sync, and following training like Modern Magick, initiation into Hermetics, or Peter Carol’s Liber MM, is progressive and makes that second nature.
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