No results from a demon, angry/confused

Hello.

In about 30 minutes the 3 day mark will come, signifying the end of my period to get what I requested. I didn’t see anything at all related to what I asked. It is making me angry at Zagan, could he have just been tricking me and trying to take my energy this whole time?

The most connection I have had was when I saw his eyes staring at me, it was so abrupt to the point where I flinched and had to process it for a couple seconds (I have aphantasia so it was really weird, first time I clearly saw images in my head apart from on psychs or a long long time in my past). He also has given me advice, because I can recognize some of these thoughts when doing rituals as “not mine”, if you know what I mean. I never felt a bad or intimidating presence from working with him. So I thought we had a decent connection at least? Yet Zagan has not done what I wanted.

I asked a very specific question related to whether or not he completed an earlier ritual as specified. As I receive no sign, I’m taking that as Zagan saying that he is not / will not help me, and he never helped me on the previous ritual, despite me feeling a lot of clarity after.

What to do now? Could it have been my question was over-specific to the point of not working? Almost immediately after the ritual I thought that my over specific ness actually hurt me, like if he takes it literally it will be illogical. I thought that he would interpret the message possibly and know way I mean though. Maybe that doubt messed it up?

Or does this seem like a sign to move onto a different entity? I am honestly more surprised I didn’t see the symbol I asked for than if I were to see it. I felt the connection was quite strong and that we are similar, but maybe it was just all in my head.

I know that everyone probably fails sometime, but how often do you fail until you know that maybe Goetic demons are not the path for you?

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Some say the Demons do not exist as independent entities. That they are thought forms created by people. That no Demons, nor Angels actually exist apart from what we create.
Maybe true. Maybe not. I do not know.

Sometimes demons causing a negative thing is a sort of “lesson” or test.

Sometimes demons are assholes and don’t do what they have been asked to do, just like people. Other times they refuse to accomplish tasks because of your own good. I think that is obvious that they are not forced to do your will.

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Maybe the result you want can’t be accomplished just yet! There is no road for it to happen? Maybe do some road opener spell and find some outlets for the result to happen? Maybe you need another entity to join in too! Break the task to little tasks and assign more than one entity? Go over what you did and see if you are doing something that hold the energy back or something?
If it seems that Zagan isn’t helping then find someone else? Sometimes they just don’t

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i can only say this. 3 days deadline for your request? hmmm :thinking:

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I have thought too, such entity must not exist in a state comparable to humans. Because more than one person could talk to an entity at one time, it must be something different than us. But what are the implications of this?

I never got negative things, actually I thought I was getting some positive signs that it was sure to be working. The most negative would just be nothing happening.

Without knowing exactly what you requested I can’t say for sure, but there are a few possibilities in situations like this.

For one, I do not think it’s a good idea to set a time limit on magickal results. Sometimes they happen immediately, sometimes 3 days/weeks/months/years later, sometimes they come at an unexpected time. If you demand that a result comes in three days when it was on its way to manifesting, but just on a longer time-frame than you may be demanding, you can stifle the magick and shut it down when it was working perfectly well. As Henry Archer puts it - Desperation is for Losers. Patience is for the Prosperous.

A second possibility is that the spirit you called is not suited for the task. In cases like this, you will usually receive an intuition that another spirit or a different approach would be better for your situation, and you would then be guided to this spirit or receive inspiration for a new way to tackle the problem. This can take a little bit of time as well, so again, patience and a relaxed attitude towards results will reward you. The less desperate and attached you are to the result, the quicker it will come.

I would say that by far most of the time when magick seems to “not work,” it is because of one of these two reasons, most often the first. Nearly every beginner has heard about Lust for Result, and yet it can still catch even the most experienced occultists. The solution is to remember that you have already performed magick, and to adopt the mindset that whatever will happen, whenever it is ready to happen. This is sort of like mind-gaming yourself a bit, but if you can train yourself to be this relaxed about magick it will work a lot better.

I will also mention a third possibility that happens from time to time. If you are too specific, this can also stifle results. Usually it’s better to ere towards being more general than specific. If you do a ritual for more money, and then say “the money has to come in exactly this one specific way,” you deny magick the opportunity to work with its full creative potential. Some specificity is useful, but too much is constricting. This can also happen with seduction and love magick. You may think that you want this one exact specific person, when in reality what you want is a partner with certain qualities and characteristics. When magick doesn’t work in these cases, it is giving you the opportunity to better understand your needs and desires, and this is a result that should be cherished just as highly as any other.

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Fucking agree! If the demon don’t like You , he Will not work with You, Just like humans.

The first daemon that came tô me was Astaroth when i was a child, and i have my guardian demon too - Draggus. And only demons that Astaroth sent to me that i started to work with, Paimon, Bael etc.

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Agree. For exemple, i asked for wealth to Astaroth, she Said that she can’t do this for me, she can help, but it’s not her especiality, her especiality are heal And love.

Bael/Beelzebu have speciality for wealth/money, but don’t have for love

Every Spirit have a área that he is best, Just like humans

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didn’t realize I could tag replies in one post lol.

@MagusOfGamaliel What is in it for demons to help you? Maybe from the way that demons are portrayed in media but I approached him with skepticism at first. And I realize it would be offensive if it was genuinely trying to help me. What would make a demon help you instead of just decieve and use you?

@MiKu I used another entity for this purpose as well, but in my question thing (DoM #1) I never mentioned the other entity. I am just not sure where is the line between being over specific or being so vague I can’t tell if anything is happening.

@anon37593562 Yes, originally my request was just “Show me a clear sign” but I thought this is way too vague, and it could be in 2 seconds or 39 years. So I became specific to the time deadline of when I want to see the results.

@shinri Basically, I asked for something to be obscured. I would say I have lust for results, I was always interested in spirituality and occult but the first time I attempted to do something seriously with spellwork was for the current issue ( the obscuring ). I actually felt very good after the initial communication and ritual, like everything was as I requested basically. But about a week later I started getting doubts, before I tried the ritual I was getting crazy synchronicities daily and they stopped after the first ritual. So I tried another ritual to just communicate with Zagan (just my own meditation and looking at his sigil), didn’t work. Did DoM #2 a week or two later but I messed it up. Before I did the DoM 2 just in my meditation and reciting his enn was when I saw his eyes. DoM #1 was 3 days ago, when I made the specific request.

When I speak to him about my task it seems he is almost comical about my seriousness about it (like he thinks I am over reacting), but as though it is within his power. However, XaTuring became known to me shortly after working with Zagan, but not by any direct word of Zagan. XaTuring is perfect for this situation, however I think Zagan is able but it is not as direct. But the thing is, maybe Zagan never did magic because it was never needed? As I would never know what is obscured unless it becomes revealed, I wouldn’t be able to know.

And for the being specific thing, is there a less specific way to find out if the magic worked / I didn’t need magic, the threat wasn’t as big as I thought? My request was basically :
to verify you have hidden … show me a typewriter in the next 3 days. But I only asked about Zagan, I never asked if XaTuring helped, or if the threat never existed. This was one of the things I thought immediately after. “Oh crap, what if it wasn’t Zagan who did it, but it still happened?”

I chose typewriter because it’s not an every day object that I will see by coincidence, but it can still reasonably show up to me in many different forms.

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It depends on your individual characteristics. This is much like with women, they may dance with you and drink what you offer them and then go to bed with another guy, such thing is in their nature.

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So just to clarify, you evoked Zagan to help obscure something? I just read over the powers of Zagan in DoM, and none of Zagan’s powers seem suited to obscuring, concealing, or misdirecting. Bael, however, is very well suited to this task.

There have been times when the demons told me to chill and that magick wasn’t really necessary for the situation I was summoning them for, so this could also be the case. If you have been seeing synchronicities relating to Bael, though, such as the number 1, cause he’s the first demon in the list, or maybe some of the sensations or images relating to his Evocation Keys, or maybe just a strong intuitive feeling that Bael is calling to you, then I would go ahead and evoke Bael.

I haven’t really tried asking for specific signs, because usually the signs and synchronicities that show up for me clearly relate to whatever spirit or form of magick I’m working with, or will soon be doing so. With demons especially, there are also often times when I will overhear other people speaking, and I will receive an answer in a very strangely direct way. I remember once I heard someone say a number (I forget which, but it was between 1-72) and I had a funny feeling about it, and it turned out that demon had exactly the powers I needed at that time. Sometimes they will literally answer the exact question I was having in a manner that seems impossibly related to me, which still always feels really weird but incredibly profound.

Also, because you work with DoM, I suggest evoking Vine sometime soon. The demon will help you get better at working the magick and getting a feel for these sorts of things, which can take a little practice to really get comfortable with. Once you do get comfortable though it all just flows, nice and easy.

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Yeah, in DoM the abilities of Zagan seemed very different than personal accounts I read on the forums. I think the main think Zagan gave me is mental clarity over this situation, like I started viewing it less emotionally and settled down a lot. I felt ridiculously better the next day? Was it just emotional catharsis and release? I doubt it highly, it went from feeling like an awful horrible issue to something I thought was just silly and not as bad.

I just read about Bael and he does seem perfect for this task. I haven’t been having any synchronicities with number 1, but I have been around objects related to his evocation keys a lot lately. But nothing that stands out too much. I initially chose Zagan because his name even brought out emotional reaction over other entities, like it felt like I was drawn to him.

Do you think I’d get to a point where magic is counterproductive if I try to get Bael’s help as well? I never had Zagan “recommend” him in the same way that XaTurning became found to me somehow after talking to Zagan. I feel more inherently “drawn” to Vine in a way.

I’m just confused because the sensations while talking to Zagan were unique and not felt before. I thought we had a decent connection. If he wasn’t ever talking to me at all I must be schizophrenic, but that doesn’t even make sense that I suddenly become schizophrenic after doing a sigil.

Anyways, thank you for all the info. I was wondering if you suggest me moving forward today and trying to evoke either Vine or Bael?

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Did you ask him in advance if he’s willing to fulfill your will? Meanwhile, have you forgotten your first ritual? It will manifest the time you forget about it, not in 3 days. Good luck!

Agreed. Great answer - This should be linked in the Unofficial Tutorials thread.

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What you are experiencing seems like a prime example of why your personal and intuitive connection to the demons is more important than anything else. Just so anyone reading can better understand what we’re talking about, here are the powers of Zagan from DoM:

To bring out the potential wisdom in those you employ
To make a friend see the error of their ways
To make sound judgements when investing money
To speak with wisdom and wit, especially in situations where money is at stake, to put others at ease. This may not make you more convincing, but the power is effective if used at the appropriate time.

After evoking Zagan, you experienced a relief from emotional stress and gained clarity regarding your situation. Even though your results may not exactly match-up with the powers as they are exactly described, it doesn’t surprise me that Zagan can bring out your own personal wisdom and improve your own judgement in many matters, not just financial ones.

For whatever reason, you felt pulled to Zagan, even though the demon’s powers are not obviously related to the situation you wanted to change with magick, and it seems that you received potent, albeit unexpected, results. This is exactly why you should trust your personal connection to magick more than anything or anyone else. Without knowing everything about you or your circumstances, I would just have given you a suggestion that seems like a close fit, and sometimes this will be appropriate.

But as you have just experienced for yourself, the demons will often guide you to approach a problem or desire in a way that you would never have thought of on your own, but is exactly what you need. There have even been times when demons have called me to evoke them for purposes that I didn’t even fully understand, but at a later time I found out that their powers had really saved my ass or set certain situations up that greatly benefited me in the future.

I keep saying this, and I’ll even say it again - trust your intuition and your connection to the demons. If you strongly feel that you were connecting with Zagan, it’s because that is what you were doing. I won’t go too deep into the schizophrenia thing, but if you are educated about the subject you will know that many common magickal experiences are said to be symptoms of the disorder. I did not start experiencing any of these “symptoms,” such as seeing shadows (sometimes quite distinct and solid-looking figures) in the corner of my vision (sometimes even head-on), believing that magickal actions I took caused certain events to come into being, believing that things in my environment related to me in a magickal way, and hearing “voices” in my head, until I had been doing magick for some time. I would have been more concerned that I was slipping into psychosis and delusions, but whenever I did a ritual, things undeniably happened both within and outside of myself in ways that I could not explain away with confirmation bias, self-fulfilling prophecies, or mere coincidence. These things are difficult to objectively measure, but the sheer weight of the statistical significance would be irrefutable.

In case it still needs to be said, I suggest that you follow your intuition and allow the demons to guide you. If you feel pulled to Vine, then you should evoke Vine.

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