Hahaha Metatron I can see where your coming from in some of your points, but the thing is, with all the course programs, interviews with a magus, personal consultations with EA, no one is going to miss out on the opportunity to BALG.
Honestly, its not about the exclusivity to me. Its about the fact that we were promised that they would never be released again. And I gotta be honest, if they were, I’d feel cheated.
All I would ask is, did you buy it because it would never be released again? I know when I was interested, that never once crossed my mind in consideration of buying, and I was considering buying it even though it would be a terrible idea financially. To me, the fact that it would never be released was worth about $.50 of that total $800 price, because whether or not it was limited edition didn’t take away from the content of the book. That is what I was looking to spend my money on, so I am just wondering if this once-in-a-lifetime feature was so important that it would offend people for it to be released, because that means that this was a high factor in why people bought the book. To me, that’s not even worth a $1 out of the total pricing and it was all about content.
But Seeker, E.A. formulates things differently in the books than he does any other time he mentions the same, and there are different exercises and rituals in the books than what he shows in the programs and letters and so on.
The specific way a thing is formulated, makes a world of difference to the learner. E.A. can talk about how to go into the Theta-Gamma Sync in a letter, and even though 80% may finally get it how to enter the state, then the 20% still wont understand it, until E.A. mentions it in another place, where they will get it.
It’s in the seemingly insignificant details that we find the info we personally need in order to understand it, and we all think in different ways.
I understand why you would feel cheated. But I get the impression that BALG is made for everyone who wants to learn this stuff. And in the books there are sigils that the newcomer wont have access to unless he asks one of us who have the book(s) if we will link them to him/her.
But there is exclusivity in having the book. Not everyone put anything special in having a book, but many of us in the occult love beautiful hardcovers, so there will be exclusivity for those of us.
@Metatron It was one of the big incentives yes (along with the content). All of the hype we heard in the build up to its release was centered around the fact that the books were never going to be released again. “A true once in a lifetime opportunity” if my memory serves me correctly.
@Attis I know where your coming from, I really do. If I was one of the people who didn’t get a chance to buy it, you’re damned right I’d fighting for a chance. But I’m not. I’m one of the people who bought this tome in good faith, not knowing what it would look like or even when I would receive it. “A priceless piece of occult history” It won’t be priceless for very long if you can pick up an ebook for 30 dollars.
Also, I remember it being mentioned about how you could pass this on to your future generations, which really appealed to me. “Here you are son, my priceless tome of black magick which I now bequeath to you…” “Its alright dad, I downloaded it a couple weeks ago”.
Not really fair in my opinion to market the book like this, only to take it away again.
I get it, Seeker.
And it’s a good point you make.
I personally just don’t want to let my wish to feel elite (and don’t view this in a condemming tone, as I don’t see it as wrong to want to feel like one of the elite. Most of us want to feel like that from time to time) hinder it for the rest of the students. Atleast not in this regard.
But I think your point is valid. I just don’t feel the same way in this regard.
In my opinion, the individual books that comprise the Complete Works should be released as ebooks, not the Complete Works itself (which includes the OAA stuff). I would love to get an EA sanctioned e-copy of The Spider and Green Butterfly if he would release it. Its the only one I don’t have.
My two cents.
Greetings All,
Well shucks folks…as an avid…OBSESSED…book collector & researcher of “Sacred Texts”…I voted to keep all of Mr. Koettings writing LIMITED to the written word ONLY!!! I DON’T EVEN OWN THE COLLECTED WORKS!!!
I missed out on the printing. However, instead of the poll stating the owners of the collected works getting the eBook/writing free and the rest of us (non-owners of The Collected)…too bad…I propose:
By reprinting this Sacred Text, people such as myself who came to this website rather late can have the opportunity to purchase it. There is nothing devaluing of this tome if it is printed a second time. Actually, in my world the “value” of Mr. Koetting’s work is sky-rocketing BECAUSE a shit-ton of people want the book.
FUCK!!! I’d rather give my money to EA directly…DIRECTLY EVERYONE…than have to give my money to Amazon, eBay, private collectors…etc.
You know who is making out right now on EA’s books? Everybody else who is selling them other than Koetting.
I VEHEMENTLY push for a second printing.
OK, my rant is done 
M_439
Part II,
Also why IMHO that these types of books should be kept in-print ONLY is because of the intimacy of a real life BOOK. There is NOTHING like the feel of high-quality paper underneath your fingers, the smell of the leather, the smell of the book itself!
Yes, we do live in the electronic age, but the electronic age doesn’t have to reside in us.
M
I definitely think there is that ‘collectors’ aspect to the Complete Works (both in its production and content) which should be upheld. Yes it would be very practical to have the books in digital format for those who don’t have the tome and those who do (myself included), but it’s not like the ebooks alone will hinder or propel one’s ascent (though Attis makes a good point regarding details). Aside from the OAA material and the names, sigils and squares in Kingdoms of Flame and The Book of Azazel, all of the information in the tome(s) and more is probably going to be covered in the BALG courses anyway.
I love EA’s writing – let the printed Complete Works be the final salute to his writing career in printed production on Magick as intended. His video courses are the next step forward in teaching these secret arts and are much more effective than print – digital or physical.
However with all of that said, I won’t really feel betrayed or cheated if they do get released as ebooks.
Good points have been brought up, but the biggest point was that this is a site for the growth and change of the world, not to continue the limitation of knowledge that is desperately needed by some people. I would never be able to afford the Complete Works, ever. Not until much later of course. But, like Timothy said, “release the books that constitute the Complete Works as a series of eBooks.”
He didn’t say release the entire Complete Works as a single PDF, just to re-release the works (Works of Darkness, Baneful Magick, etc.) for those who don’t have hundreds of dollars laying around for an eBay copy!
This would also be a great way to bring in more money so that the programs are made faster and more can be available.
One last thing, I believe wholeheartedly, that most people on this forum would buy each and every one of the PDF’s released by BALG. Even if they have pirated copies.
Yea, that was my main thing. The only thing that should be exclusive is something that a person creates for themselves, and if I am passing knowledge down to my heirs, it will be something I contrived from the stuff I learned, not an exact copy of something I read. I mean I get what people are talking about, but at the end of the day, I’m asking how important is this really to magical ascent, which is the whole purpose of the release of these documents? If I wanted to continue that, I would just leave this place and go find some initiation sect to join up with, and fact is that this still will probably end up being very exclusive anyway. It ain’t like millions more people are going to start practicing E.A.'s material because there is an ebook version, and it can only damage the integrity of your copies if you think it does. I’m not even really talking for my sake, other than the fact that I feel that I should pay for the information at some point, which I won’t unless I get to pay E.A. for it.
Secondly, it will be pirated. I’m just wondering how this sanctity can be upheld when it certainly will be violated? I mean I understand where people are coming from, I just think it is something we are going to have to get over because the digital world makes things like exclusivity an thing of the past. If you are dealing with information, forms of media, it can be reproduced digitally, so having very special, unreleased books is something that few places on Earth can do anymore. The Vatican, they can do that. Books produce for consumer sale? Not going to happen, even if it is limited. In fact, the more limited it is, the more likely it will have a demand for piracy. That’s why I’m saying he might as well get the jump, because the idea of exclusivity was already at huge risk when it came out for sale. It’s a book, it can be scanned, and it can be redistributed. Exclusivity out the window
I am all for the knowledge being shared but I now have to question everything that is promised on this website because there may be technicalities or loopholes in it. I mean:
Limited edition…no reprints ever…last fucking chance…Never again…
4 months later: How about an ebook?
Is the fact that it was going to be released mean later mean that you weren’t going to buy it? I mean, if it was bought specifically for that reason, I don’t know why on Earth you would spend that much money for that reason alone? Plus, a lot of folks are talking about the value of physical tomes, so I mean, is this exclusivity really worth hundreds of dollars more? That’s an extremely relative value point, because I know for me, the $400 was totally based off content, to hell with it being a limited edition.
Metatron777 - I like the book, but if I had an option 4 months ago to spend a fraction of the price on an ebook version… I probably would have chosen the ebook since I could put it on a tablet and it would be more convenient. Having said that, if they release an ebook version now I would not sell my physical tome as I like it too much!
My point was proven exactly, some people would be extremely upset, and that could possibly cause a loss in some customers. I wish people would actually READ everything I wrote verbatim. Not skim over the details, for example I CLEARLY stated that “I” have no issue with whatever decision E.A. & Timothy choose to make on this matter. I also stated I was speaking from a business perspective, and being fair and equitable to both sides. It seems people are in a fervor in regards to the price being the same as a printed copy. E.A. could have easily set that price for an ebook and people would have paid that amount, with no hesitation. People are paying for the knowledge, not the medium, paper or screen, it is not relevant. I don’t feel that the medium should change the price for the knowledge. If that is what E.A. felt the Complete Works should have sold at, and it was, then that is what it should stay. So, let’s say someone wanted a specific type of working done, or ritual, should they get a discount because they choose to do it through skype instead of an actual meeting on the physical plane? I didn’t know that utilizing electronic media represents a mandatory price drop in products/services. I apologize for being open minded, and having a sense of what is fair to both sides. Those without the financial means are going to continue to feel some type of way, which I again stated I understand…But, it is what it is…Even if the price dropped to $100 there are still going to be people who can’t afford that…So where does one draw the line? Also, where there is a will, there is a way. There are quite a few ways of procuring $$$ that are legal, and illegal…It is all a matter of what you are willing to do, or not to do to get what you need…Be it a book, or a roof over your head…No judgement from my angle. Just stating what reality is…I personally don’t steal…If I couldn’t get the $$$ I could have done that as an option, walked up and robbed some random stranger at an ATM; to some people it would have been no big deal to do that, to others a horrendous act. That is why I said, it is all our individual perceptions and choices that create our realities.
I do think an e-book version should be cheaper in price only for the fact that the manufacturing costs are no longer a factor. If you have $40 of content and another $35 in printing, binding, gilding, leather and foil stamping on a physical book and you have only content made available for the e-book why pay the same.
I have no problem with the CW being reprinted in physical form in either paperback or hardback. I only ask that since we were told we would be purchasing a piece of occult history that they honor that and change the appearance of the book to differentiate between the original and reprints to protect the collector value of the books.
I’m going to answer as a writer. Ebooks are a perpetual revenue stream and it’s stupid not to have them. There will always be new people looking for your book. If you aren’t making it available to them at a reasonable price where they can find it, they will still get a copy one way or another. They will buy used or they will download. They’ll get the book, but you won’t get any money. Ebooks now account for over 70% of new book sales, so the idea that everybody will go to Scribd or filesharing sites and nobody will pay is bullshit. If you actually look at the download tallies on ebooks on torrent sites, you’ll find that most eBook torrents get one to eight hundred downloads in a period of about five years or more, not counting corporate bestseller titles. That’s several hundred dollars in royalties at best - far less than the price it would cost to run a promotion and advertising campaign, which would inevitably require you to give away free copies anyway.
The price it will cost you to take the document file from your already-edited-and-formatted manuscript, drop it into Calibre, and convert it to epub - Free. That file’s just sitting on a disk somewhere anyway. Why do all that work formatting and editing just it stuff it away forever when it could be making you money?
Amazon will give you a 60 to 70% royalty, depending on how you price. And they’ll promote your book to millions of people internationally who’ve never heard of you but buy the same kind of material. You reach more people than you ever could with a website, Facebook page, etc, and it’s with a retailer they already shop with.
Some people are pulling 20,000 to 80,000 a year in eBook royalties on Amazon alone. And nonfiction titles can sell at higher prices - ten to twelve dollars instead of the two to seven dollar range fiction writers have to stick to. (Plus, barely anybody knows this, but you can trip out your book page with graphics and special formatting - you could totally replicate the look and feel of the BALG site in your book description, right down to the crazy demon pictures.)
Of course, you could sell the ebooks on your own site at a higher price, but I think that would be a mistake. This is dead material. The best thing it can do for you is direct new people to your site to buy your newer products. It can give you high visibility in a mainstream marketplace and put you on a footing with the “big” occult publishers, right there on the same virtual shelf. Old books bring new readers, but for readers, psychologically, a book that isn’t sold in the book store with all the other books isn’t really a book.
Here’s what smart publishers and distributors are doing now that everything’s going digital - you release a “Limited Special Edition,” in advance of the digital version. The Limited Edition is just for people who really love your particular product and want something extra special to show off on a shelf and always have handy. The digital edition is for the broader audience who just want it portable and on-demand and don’t need a perfect physical copy. This is becoming just as standard in book publishing as it is in music and film distribution. There are several indie publishers that do NOTHING but $300 tripped-out limited editions of forty-year-old pulp novels that are still in print and available as ebooks, but those limited editions almost always sell out in pre-order.
A lossy mp3 doesn’t replace a limited edition 3-CD box set with gorgeous artwork. What’s important is that people will pay for both. Nobody says that musicians should be deprived of mp3 royalties because some people paid more for the box set. Those people paid more because they got more. A physical object is substantially more than a compressed file - especially when the object in question has talismanic properties, and substantially more money should be paid for it. You pay more, you get more. If you don’t think you got “enough,” then you wait a few years and sell your ultra-rare item on eBay for three times what you initially paid. How “fair” does it have to be?
Not to diminish at all what Sultitan_Itan so eloquently stated, but here is a nutshell:
If and when EA and Timothy release an ebook, if you still feel cheated, you will be able to fetch more than your money spent from the physical copy by selling it. You still hold an exclusive tome that people want. So, wait for your free digital copy that you get for owning the Complete Works and then sell it on ebay. Hell, that’s the opposite of cheated if you think about it - you get all the information of the book, and you make your money back (and perhaps a profit), all for the cost of sitting on a few hundred dollars for 6 months or so.
Sounds like EA and Timothy are hooking people up, if you ask me. Free money and free information, for investing in the editing and bookbinding effort - assuming you sell the book. Otherwise, you have implicitly decided that the physical book is still worth the money, knowing that there is a legitimate electronic copy out there alongside all the illegitimate ones.
Your exclusivity is still an illusion, regardless which path they take.
The only true exclusive magickal clubs you can join, are exclusive due to skillset, rather than secrecy. I don’t think you can buy your way into the Flames, for instance.
In all honesty the free e-books make most arguments invalid:
If you bought the CW for the content then what is the problem with individual e-books?
If you bought it for the the collectibility there are STILL only 200 copies in print, that is rare indeed. Spider and the Green Butterfly was limited to 500 and is a real bitch to come by and costs close to the CW, so you have a massive collection of occult knowledge that is extremely hard to come by in the form you currently possess. Plus you no longer have to put wear on your physical copy as you could print out the e-books and use them instead.
The price argument is nullified by being given free copies of the books. Sell your original copy, make a profit, enjoy the free books and spend the return on your investment on other stuff. If one was to put heir copy on eBay for the starting price of what they paid plus shipping they would likely still make a nice profit.
You don’t want the work pirated? Too late. Hell, I have almost every book E.A. has written on my computer already and backed up on flash drives. At least this way he’ll be able to be reimbursed for his intellectual property.
You don’t want others to have it because it was the last chance offer? Get over it, as said before they are ALL available in pirated format already so if people want it they’ll get it.
I’ll be happy to have the free official e-books and I’ll gladly keep my CW.