Magic as technology, not spirituality question?

I was listening to a Glitch Bottle podcast the other day and I thought I heard an interview with Stephen Skinner where the host gave this sort of synopsis of the content of the podcast and I think he said you did not need to believe in anything for magick to work… Are there any magickians out there who have written on this subject.

Or did I just misunderstand or mis-hear entirely.
If I do not believe in angels or demons, and I do a working that uses an angel/demon how do I have any faith that the magick will work. Why would I even bother. I am sure it was in an interview with Dr. Skinner and he works with the Goetia and a lot of other things.

I ask because my faith is low. I think magick is great for spiritual growth, but don’t see capable of manifesting anything for me (I think it can for you, just not for me). Anyway, if there is a way to bolster my faith, that would be fantastic. So it caught my attention as possibly being useful to me. On the other hand, it may not be. I don’t know, it is like a clue I am following to see what I find out.


I didn’t believe in anything in particular when I got started and everything worked just fine. This is a core principle of Chaos Magic.


Success and failure is a matter of perspective. When trying to determine the success of a magickal endeavor it all comes down to what you are paying attention to when making that decision. Many who believe that they have failed are just looking in the wrong direction.

For example: if you have no sense of touch it is hard to know what is in your right hand if you only look at your left.

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The chaos school of magick states exactly this, mate. That it doesn’t matter if spirits are real or not.


To expand on this, I’m still open to the idea that everything I’m doing is “just” in my head.

As Lon Milo DuQuette likes to say, “Of course magic is all in your head; but you have no idea just how big your head really is.


I really don’t know what I believe or not right now. But I’ve seen some results, so does it really matter?

I’m with you in this. But let’s go deeper. I’ve seen people saying that no spirit helps individual A to overcome, let’s say, cancer. That it was the placebo effect. So what? individual A is still cured! Isn’t it, then, something worth knowing?

The point is, even if we can’t define the exact mechanics of magick, it still work. And I forgot to tell OP, but yes, some authors address the point of view and Psychonaut field mannual even calls it technology.


You may view spirits either as parts of your mind, cosmic forces (e. g. gravity, magnetism) or dimensional beings. So you would activate, channel or contact them in those ways which more make sense to you: for example gaze at sigils, repeat or vibrate names instead of using actual calls from grimoires.
EA once posted a meditation to “inject life with magick” that may be helpful… Also it’s possible that looking into Law of Attraction will fuel faith in magick, besides the resulting and general effectiveness of future workings.


I actually tend to view the spirits as a combination of the following things:

  1. Independent beings with their own thoughts and objectives.

  2. Archetypal information from deep within the collective unconsciousness.

  3. Our own, personal language(s) of symbolism.

This is why people who interact with the same spirit generally report some experiences that are the same across all practitioners through time (1), some experiences that vary between cultures and times (2), and some thing unique to them (3).


I don’t have much faith either. In fact, I called myself an atheist for a very long time. But after decades of practice (LHP/Chaos), it is hard to deny that these entities are real. I still think there is a scientific basis for it all. Faith diminishes and returns but I think the practice is most important. It always leads me to a better life and I think the lack of faith, the unwillingness to submit, the anarchistic attitude, the constant questioning and searching is appreciated by the entities of the Infernal Empire.


I may need to read the Psychonaut book.

I am just looking for a way to amp up my belief that I could manifest something physical

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Read @Timothy’s Black Magic Manifesto. It is made to just your question. I am faithless.

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I don’t think you can manifest anything physical out of thin air… like Mary Poppins you don’t click fingers and things appear

However if anybody on here can… congratulations and please let me know how :joy:

Things will always manifest according to the natural routes… you do magick for money… no it might not come thru your letterbox or be in your bank instantly… but an opportunity may present itself for you to earn that money for example

As for faith… you need to program your subconscious to believe, really doesn’t matter what you think you believe or don’t on the face of it IME… Meditation, subliminals, EFT tapping… think of yourself as a computer you can program… I mean life has been programming you 24/7 so why not hijack it and program yourself

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You don’t have to be religious. There are atheist mages.
You do want to have no doubt that your magick will work. Believe in your ability.