Hi everyone,
As someone from a JCI background and currently without a solid goal when it comes to apotheosis/henosis, I have a few questions that have been nagging at me for awhile regarding the different accepted Paths. Personally I accept and recognize both sides in myself as I develop my will towards the things i want and let fate decide when im unsure which outcome is best. Anyways this is aimed at those who classify themselves as one or the other.
Namely, would su!c!de be the end goal in this lifetime for a LHP practitioner? Not out of desperation or hopelessness, but as a breaking of taboo and going out on your own terms, like falling on your sword before the enemyâs army can have their way?
Also, is it even possible to practice magick with the RHP? Wouldnt any magick act (even praying for things) be in opposition to the Will of Source, etc.? Wouldnt complete submission be the prime way of ascent in that path?
Maybe my thoughts on this are skewed by religious doctrine, as I am aware of Hermetic and Thelemic philosophy but it kind of gets rendered into my âif magick, then LHPâ logic.
First, if youâre mentally unstable please go seek actual help in the real world in your real life. Magick can get a bit dangerous when youâre mentally unstable and not in a fun way.
Second, I have never met or seen anyone anywhere who practices magick (true magick) ever say anything remotely related to suicide being any type of goal, at all, of anything magick related. Ever. If youâve seen that type of content, please stay away from those people. Theyâre crazy cult-leaders who are manipulative and need mental help so as not to harm themselves and others.
Now that thatâs out of the way, Iâm interested in exploring a couple of your points. I was raised (Roman) Catholic but I started doubting it young and began magick young too. I think sometimes Abrahamic people preach about how the devil wants you to die and that might influence ideas on thinking killing oneself is associated with LHP, but Iâve just never seen that as true anywhere.
I think RHP gives too much power away personally and thatâs why Iâm against practicing that path. Itâs just not what Iâm interested in. Sure, I worship spirits but I think itâs more accurate to say I cultivate relationships with them. Yes, Iâve burned incense and given thanks and given offerings, but being RHP was kinda traumatic. I mean at a glance you give all your power to a god who doesnât want to help and doesnât fucking careâŚI would rather have relationships with gods who are kind to me and impart knowledge and help me grow in my power as opposed to make me feel powerless.
But this:
I donât get it? If youâre going for hurting yourself before others can, would it not just be better to find clarity and peace and power where others have put you down? I mean why fall when you can rise? Why does âdeathâ by oneself or another have to be what this ends at as opposed to reaching a state of power and peace or whatever else you may want.
My interpretation of LHP philosophy is living life on my own terms, living respectfully and responsibly, being accountable for my actions, and not expecting others to do my own work. The Satanic Bible was one of the first books I read.
RHP is based on the belief that humanity is somehow below other entities, and that it is flawed, and in need of a saviour or an escape.
Lots of systems work like that, not only christianity. Many religions, cults and movements seek some form of redemption and being âfreedâ from this worldâs misery or ascending to some form of higher plane.
LHP means realising that life is not flawed just because there is misery and pain. And we are not slaves to some higher form of consciousness.
Ending your own life cannot be a LHP goal, thatâs the way I see it.
I am in a stable place and I wouldnt wish anyone else to do this kind of thing, i was just looking for some clarification. I did not mean ending life while still young and vital per se, but say you were old and the end was near already. If a practitioner ill to such an extent, wouldnt doing such a thing give some sort of power? Causing the end on oneâs own terms rather than letting suffering continue while nature takes its course.
Thats a very interesting thread, I agree with a lot of what Timothy says in it and can see myself in a lot of the descriptive text of what a black mage is. The only thing keeping me from full commitment at this point is that little âwhat if?â in the back of my head placed there by the circumstances of my upbringing, my religious childhood and family
For me as an LHP practitioner, suicide is a possibility because free will also includes freely choosing how the physical body will die and the magician as God is more than his body anyway. But every LHP practitioner will tell you his or her own opinion because there is not just one LHP but several streams of the LHP. For me, motivation is crucial, suicide out of desperation or due to mental disorders, for example, would not be an option for me, if then I would need better reasons.
I must ask if you are okay mental health wise, and if you are or have had suicidal thoughts
If so, please seek medical help immediately.
Suicide is not the goal. Three goals Iâve heard of are being an inner circle free of suffering, creating tour own universe, and swapping bodies in reincarnation.
I think some of us just know when weâre going to die and I think we have choice in it, but I wouldnât say that means shooting oneself necessarily or something else to that affect.
Iâve known when people were going to die before and one of them knew he was going to die because he (he did magick) called all his friends and family the day before and when they got together they realized he had called all of them. I wasnât as close with him, but my boyfriend was and went to see him the day before (also at his request). Iâve also been given guidance by my guides/ by spirit(s) concerning the death Iâll one day face. And I donât want to give details but it was pretty much a âlet us know when youâre readyâ thing.
I have never even thought about receiving guidance about that sort of thing for myself. I feel like it would give me too much anxiety, even if i live a long life.
I respect your wish to keep the details to yourself, but may I ask, has knowing been beneficial to you? I could see that with a somewhat defined timeframe it could help get rid of the tendency to procrastinate
I understand the concern, as I have it myself. Thats why i tried to make the topic somewhat vague and originally censored certain words in the OP.
I have all these questions that I cannot ask on this forum and i have no clue where else to find the answers. I can ask spirits myself but that would be UPG at best, especially since i am still a beginner.
Im fine with this topic being taken down or whatever
Well if the topic stays on general LHP v RHP philosophical differences itâs a fine and ok one just some things are a bit questionable as they arenât really LHP or RHP but more of a personal philosophy question unless you limit RHP to only being the Church/Temple/mosque/synagogue going mainstream religion followers and exclude other RHP that are not of that persuasion.
I think if the topic sticks to LHP v RHP without venturing into subjects that are not really based on LHP RHP philosophies but are strictly personal matters or in some cases topics of religious dogma as opposed ultimate philosophy itâll be fine and could bring in some interesting views.
I was also considering the whole ascetic philosophy of certain eartern religions as well, with power being received through their path but ultimately viewed as distraction or temptation
Well thatâs a safe topic as far as Iâm concerned the non attachment v attachment contrast of that subject is very interesting.
Just the topic of right to ____ is a personal not philosophical discussion that is also a hot button topic whereas the discussion of the idea of non-attachment v how RHP cling to some attachments I an interesting subject m. So⌠philosophize away
Add: to me RHP v LHP philosophy topic is more like a discussion of how one (RHP)says turn the other cheek the other days if punched hit back(LHP). Comparing differences and disvmcussing those differences.
So then to go further, why do the JCI religions believe in prayer? If their God is supreme, his Will will be done. So why pray? Why not just submit to the course of events as they play out, because that would be Godâs will no?
Having lost faith in their god hard to say why they believe. I stopped believing when what they said didnât work for me. Upbringing? Brainwashing? I know that from the time theyâre babies (from personal experience) theyâre taught to believe imo brainwashed into it. Add: Theyâre also taught that if itâs not working itâs their fault not gods they did something wrong. So imo brainwashing.
That took a dark turn. Iâve never thought about it this way, I mean itâs absolutely trivial to pray when you believe that everything will happen as it does just because âgodâ says so. I agree, why bother? I mean do they think prayer will sway âhisâ mind or do they think prayer is about something else, about praying something into existence either despite godâs wishes or in alignment with them?
I canât imagine thinking everything happens because âgod saysâ and then dedicating time to praying for something to happen knowing my prayers donât matter and never will matter. Why not just be sad all the time instead? Maybe it has to do with hope?
But thatâs part of why LHP suits me. I realized the Abrahamic god didnât want to and I want what I want and fuck Iâm gonna have it.
