Left hand or Right hand how to choose when your ambidextrous?

I’ve followed this thread with interest, and an angle I hadn’t read it in it yet seems to be related to the difference between a “tradition” or a “system” and what one does. -in the same way that a method (or path) that has developed over many yrs (perhaps hundreds of years) not only of trial and error of an interlocked group, but of intense and masterful embodiers of the knowledge; and as they further Become it, from there they can see more clearly how to improve it.
This is how I see a system (like a distinct Lineage of TaiChiChuan, which may or may not have strong NeiGung components, vs a distinct Lineage of Penchak Silat and the Tenaga-Dragon Power Possessions)- which is different than how one follows it.
-once one has mastered (at an intermed lvl, vs needing to be a Master, but more than a few yrs of partial exploration), then one shifts from structure to the freeflow, mixing and improv… vs starting out improvising (before having any of that structure to utilize and elaborate off of)…
Also the idea is at that pt one not only has strs, but has developed by that system Awakened and Activated skills and dormant Capacities.

In short- 3 “paths” could be Following LHP (whatever that might mean), or Following RHP (whatever that might mean), or Following some mixture… but those 3 are Following paths… they are not the “Paths” being followed. (systems, if such they are) In that sense LHP and RHP are still 2 separate methods even if someone chooses and selects from each- that doesn’t combine and mix the Paths themselves.

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I’d thus contrast what is terms the Western-net version of LHP which is a concept of subculture based upon another system (like saying I’ll take a few bits of Tantra-Layakriya, a bit of Ha-Tha Energy-Yoga… and combine from Goetic: sure, but that’s doesn’t mean one is mixing. In the same way that Vamachara is reinterpreted, as Shamanism is reinterpreted.
I think at root as we don’t really have traditions that “work” (Thus the great work that EA is promoting finding a Working System… vs his comments about the systems of the Loa, as there is a method and groups in place. How demonstratable are the skills of different hodge-podge groups? -we are reconstructing something, trying to create a Working System… and often read of Magic-Forums talk about how in “olden times” that was metaphor, we can’t do the Workings of Power they wrote about, so is it possible? (and yet without the step by step system of how to progressively open up and activate. Not too soon, but ready as soon as, in the right seq and clusters. -perhaps if it was so easy one could make up any system to make it work, more would?)

Just to give another angle.  (I do agree with some remarks above, but the key I think is the 2 "paths" aren't the same I don't think as concretely identified systems.)

(( Edit: after posting this, I was re-reading from WoD, and a couple of pages into the Introduction I see the line: "…the line between Black and White is drawn quite clearly.
These are the Works of Darkness. Any that would claim that there is no Black and there is no White must therefore be standing in Limbo, and would do well to take this tome and discover for himself where heaven and hell part."
Which brought to mind how LHP/RHP is often tied to Black-Dark vs White-Beneficient, although they could be seen as diff ))

i don’t see rhp/lhp as being good/evil or light/dark. there are plenty of lhp who believe in fairness and justice and more rhp than anyone would ever admit will do you dirty at the first opportunity. there’s no ethics to it at all. the whole deal of working magick is strictly business to me.

to me it’s more about who’s in charge. do you want to answer to a boss for your ascent? then be rhp. do you want the responsibility to fall on you and rise or fall on your own decisions? then lhp is your deal. it’s that simple.

it’s kind of like, if you like being an employee or a company man, go be rhp. if you have to be an entrepreneur, lhp is your deal. and of course you can work as a startup within an organization (work the darkside within an rhp system), do licensing deals as a feeder company for a corporation (cut side deals with rhp as an lhp independent), or work in a company and moonlight on the side (serve with both hands). there are plenty of other choices. you can even hire out the service and just reap the rewards (be a client to magicians) or invest in the whole deal (either as an occult researcher, or give financial input for others to do magickal training) without getting directly involved yourself.

there’s more choice than you think. you just have to figure out what YOU want.

I’m not quite sure I agree with the analysis of RHP and LHP. For example, many pacts involve a submission to spiritual forces that your are bound to through contractual agreement. While it is possible for this to happen in RHP magic, pact-making is a staple of LHP magic, and if you screw it up, you are almost certain to pay some sort of heavy consequence. So while we can say that LHP magic does tend to be more assertive, it might be due to the fact that RHP individuals find this path to be more comfortable with their pre-disposed religious indoctrination.

I’ve read the Bible plenty of times, and I can say that most of it really involves no real need to be servile at all. Most people just don’t know how to read, period, let alone how to think analytically about what they read. Religion itself involves being thoughtless, but most every spiritual text has a thoughtless religious system around it, and all of them suck. I am hard-pressed to find a social stratification system that was more oppressive than the Hindu caste, which utilized an extremely narrow ideology of karma to keep people in check. Yet Yoga, bred from spiritual traditions related to Hinduism, has a world of spiritual merit, so we can’t really judge things based on how people oriented to them.

At any rate, I tend to lean towards the dichotomy of giving vs receiving. This dichotomy seems to be at the root of all the others, as light and dark also plays the same way (white light reflects, darkness absorbs). RHP is more of a giving paradigm, which does involve being more generous, open and ready towards the act of service, reluctant to violence… nicer things. However, in order to do any of that, you have to have some sort of receiving going on, and one that allows you to thrive while doing so. Meanwhile, LHP is more about receiving, where one builds the self through whatever means they deem worthwhile, sometimes at the expense of others. However, here you must also be considerate at least to some point, know when to give things away, withdraw from violence (if only for a grander-scale activity)… either way you slice it, you wind up with a Yin/Yang concept.

You gotta know when to be both, and as Living Gods, I can’t honestly say you can encompass this without knowing how to walk both lines. You see RHP, and people automatically associate it with angels, YHWH, giving to charity. However, the Bible is filled with countless acts of straight ass-kicking, all of which are done by angelic forces. Many people who give to charity are doing it only because they feel it is a gain for them, and if they weren’t going to “heaven”, they wouldn’t do shit. So this is nonsense.

Likewise, if you are working with a demon, it’s LHP. Yet, many of us are working with them to learn things like healing, giving money to our loved ones, to be more generous… so it’s really about how you use what you are working with, rather than what your are working with. I’ve seen people refer to NAP as a White Magick manual simple because of the entities working in it. But NAP is easily one of the most self-serving manuals on magic I have ever seen, down to works involving the absolute torment and humiliation of opponents. To me, that’s black magic manual, and yet very few, if any demons are in that manual.

Zecharyah 555 I have also Achieved success in both ‘Church Magic’ , and the Occult and I too believe that the Church restrict the Shit out of people. So I decided to go on my Own Path. With Myself as the Only being I worship I see myself as “tapped into” that which is God. thats why I now work/practise beyond labels. I try simple magic from any path as long as its works for me. What works for you? Thats up to you to decide.

Middle Pillar Magic…period…

End of story…

[quote=“DK The Mage, post:16, topic:122”][quote=“ZachD555, post:14, topic:122”]Hey Zoe,

your advice is really helpful. I have a mirror set up in my room that often allows me to see manifestations. It’s nothing special, just part of my dresser. I have also scryed into a blank cell phone screen, when sitting around bored at the park. I’m only new to the actual art of setting up an alter, pouring the circle ect. I’d like to see the physical manifestation of a spirit, not as confirmation of it’s existence, but rather to know i have the ability to call such a being forth and cause it to take beholdable form. I’m gonna try some practices tonight and see if I get any new results…I’m working through the path in Evoking Eternity now…,…thanks again for your help, your advice has been priceless.[/quote]

heh, I love it! Scrying into strange mediums is one of my favorite things to do. A hole in the ground, my underwear, a nail hole in the wall, bottle of wine … whatever - I’ve found some very interesting mediums to be sure. Two of my favorites are broken LCD screens and used motor oil with a bit of blood. :stuck_out_tongue: hehe[/quote]

We live in a magickal world and I find you can receive messages from your Daemon or spirit from everything around you. It is a matter of tuning your perceptions to be able to perceive them. Meditation is a great way of slowing down all the chatter in your head so your mind is quiet enough to hear the messages that are being sent to you all the time. Meditation will help you with what ever path you choose and is a very important spiritual practice.

My personal view on this, is destroy your notion of a set path. In the end magick is magick, whether you are helping others or helping yourself. Do not run from something because its considered ‘dark’, go with what feels right for you at the time. I myself am a very good and kindhearted person, but I refuse to fall into the nonsense that is picking sides. Just learn about all that you can, research into all the supposed “paths”, and practice whatever you feel makes the most sense to you. By limiting yourself to a specific path, all you are doing is limiting your opportunity to learn, develop, and grow as a magick user.