So I was thinking of joining the freemasons mainly wanting to get to know people of higher quality (especially in my country) but am really worried about their oath and what it all means, what consequences could happen because of this oath.
And saying I don’t even intend to break it, but could I be free from it, maybe have some protection before the initiation so that I don’t have spiritual attachments?
Also the initiation ritual raises some questions, if you know about it you probably know it’s a bit creepy judging by normal standards.
I also heard that somehow Freemasonry is directly or indirectly related to Lucifer, could anyone explain this in more detail?
One more thing, recently I had a dream about this initiation (was weirdly mixed with me being abroad and other stuff, like having gay s*x which was the first time I dreamt of such bulsh^t since I’m fully straight) where I supposedly had to sacrifice a loved one before I get initiated, eventuallyI decided to not join and escaped from there (again this was in a dream).
So I’m wondering, is this something made by my subconscious because I was in constant worry of whatever Freemasonry implies and whatever social media says about it, or maybe a sign becaue I verbally asked guidance from my higher self with signs of light if this path is for myself and if it isn’t to let it dissipate with peace - one thing I can say for sure there was no peace for now.
From the Freemasons I know, there’s nothing spiritual about it, it’s an old boys club and a networking opportunity, they teach you nothing esoteric and you’d have to learn that on your own. Probably depends on the club.
The oaths are indeed insulting and ridiculous, but not enforced. Nobody is going to take you to a beach to cut your tongue out if you talk about them after level 3.
However, an oath is a personal spiritual commitment, and for your own integrity, if you already have a conflicting oath in place, such as say, in the US, the Allegiance to the Flag, then this is an oath-breaking, traitorous thing to swear, and you must decide if this is a stain worth having on your energy.
A man cannot serve two masters. It’s a game of chance whether you’ll be asked to choose though, and usually not. So it become an issues of personal integrity.
In other countries, nobody really cares, you don’t have a constitution or oaths like this to conflict. You might have a conflict with a religion if you follow one that demands obedience. Freemasons are basically Judaism-like and at the top level use the Jewish spiritual system called Kabbalah.
Depends on the lodge but my high-falutin’ ideals aside, you’ll probably get this.
Nope that’s bullshit. You get ZERO magickal anything, ate the low levels it’s a social club, Again at higher levels it’s Kabbalistic - check out the work of Manly P Hall, (classic author, HUGE body of info) Damien Echols (youtube, self taught) . I know a 22nd degree mason - not a whiff of occultist about him, he’s a do-gooder and volunteers to help people a lot.
Depends on the rite, another freemason friend of mine did the whole get-naked-blindfolded thing for 3rd degree. Yeah it’s weird and destabilizing, on purpose, something about psychologically owning you. Some people are into that - sheep LOVE to be owned, it’s important to them and they don’t even want to be sovereign. Some just deal with it to get the benefits.
Psychological manipulation only works if you fall for it. You’re a mage: know yourself, know it and see it for what it is - mental-emotional abuse, basically - and don’t allow yourself to be bamboozled by other people’s mind games.
Watch the film 1984, there’s priceless and really overt, crude lessons on mind games and mental-emotional control that are worth learning as prep for… life, never mind joining a social club. It’s like a class in Brainwashing Basics 101.
Sounds like a “worry dream”. Your subconscious is thinking about all the worst case scenarios that you’ve heard about cults and group pressure, from prison to cartels to skinwalkers. That all exists, but I don’t think that applies at this level, and you’d be able to choose not to advance up the levels before it got [more] weird.
This is the first time I EVER heard someone actually spell this out in words, that people like to be owned like sheep. It’s a great way to describe it. The way I see it is that, the reason this is, is based on the inherent laziness in people. It’s easier and more comfortable for the mind to be lazy, not think critically, and let someone else take control of the ship.
The question is, what makes someone choose to be sovereign compared to someone who is lazy/sheep? And yea, there’s a freemason lodge near me and I ask myself sometimes if its worth checking out.
Thank you for your honest answer, it does lift off some of my worries.
And, no I don’t think I have any conflicting oaths.
About the sheep owning, it might be true, yes, I like to believe I’m not like that.
So in your opinion is it worth proceeding with this purely for the networking benefits it might give you, let’s say for potentially making considerably more money?
I attended my first dinner at a Freemason lodge as a new prospect. They essentially run charities and that is their model for profit. By law, a certain percentage of money raise for the charity is actually donated, then the larger part is kept. (for upkeep, personal profit, etc.)
That night, I was handed like four business cards from that first dinner alone. One guy was a foreign-born physician, the others were a real estate agent with his own business, an old insurance broker, tradesman. It occurred to me that this is what they mostly do, profit through charities and business networking.
The Grand Master who showed me around for a bit. He then explained that in history, the Freemasons had to operate in secrecy because they broke ground where the church didn’t. They promoted freedom of faith, equal rights for humanity, and a loosely western Kabbalist philosophy. Of course the church wasn’t having that nonsense, so they deemed them an enemy and hunted them down, calling them devil worshipers, sorcerers, etc. But now in America, (a country literally founded on Freemasonic members and philosophies) they operate openly while retaining their beliefs of fellowship.
So their initiation model is mostly remembering passages from Masonic literature to prove their membership, which is done in private. But nowadays their whole system itself is nothing secret. There is symbolism in the voting process for new members and positions, but they are not like sorcerous ceremonies. They can be seen as celebrations of their legacy and heritage.
I once too was interested in joining, mainly becuase i knew alot of them and they would ask if i was ever interested and one time i was actively recruited by a few who were from another town i worked in and thier club was low on memeberhip and i knew a guy from there also.
My main concern was also the oath part as my initiation under a guru would conflict with this and also i had the belief that oaths last more than just this lifetime and could interfere with things i was working with and on. To me oaths and your word mean alot. I declined to join after weighing this conflict and hearing about the rituals they do for intitations.
I would agree with mulberry on it being more of a social club for the guys and not much esoteric or occult stuff going on, while im not saying some clubs or members may not be involved in those things, but from my understanding and outside knowledge from the guys i know, i dont think they are involved in anything like that and no worshipping or ties to lucifer. Mostly a club for locals who get together and do stuff for the community and charities. I wouldnt discount it being good for some people who need direction and maybe a lil moral guidance and something to do in free time. They do alot of good for communties like donations, fundraisers for hospitals, vets, homeless etc so i would say they do alot of good things in the community.
It’s mostly a brotherhood they will visit you personally and meet you in different places and situations and will decide if you deserve to become “family”… more than this if you’re already into magick they will probably deny your application.
I attended my first montly stated dinner as a prospect and they never called me back. At one point I did mention my knowledge and practice of Hermetic Qabalah. I wonder if I just lacked to social skills to be appealing, or if they really just didn’t want me in their boys club.
So In a previous topic I asked about getting initiated into freemasonry and the side effects from that. Joining Freemasonry Fear
Now assuming one decides to do so - we know the fact that during the ritual the person is walked around the room blindfolded while the masons around them are putting in their intention to create a permanent imprint in the initiate’s psyche so that they become connected to the collective thoughtform of the freemasonry (which from my understanding could be called an egregore).
Can anyone explain what it means being connected to this egregore? Like is it possible you lose your sense of self?
Is is possible to avoid getting linked to it during the rituals?
If one is already connected to it can you cut links without officially leaving freemasonry?
Also, since being connected to an egregore would directly or indirectly mean you start living in a different reality-tunnel (being connected to this collective thoughtform) - what does this mean spiritually/ energetically - do you actually stop being yourself? Or does this change the trajectory of your ascension?
(to summarize this specific worry of mine - I’m afraid of losing myself, or the current self, or you could say I am kinda want to avoid of a potential/or not - future version of myself)
Also, is it possible that some of the spirits I work with would dislike the fact that I joined freemasonry and not want to collaborate with me? (Archangels specifically)
In any case, I thank you for your time and answers, kind people!
This is really the same topic continued, so I have merged the posts.
Define “connected”… When you join any club, firm or signing up for a website - you get to tell people you’re a member and use the services. Every organization is it’s own entity, or egregore, so you already know what it’s like to connect to one. THIS one tell you the rules you are to keep which are what’s different. You choose if you will keep the rules. But I’d say if you’re not going to, why join, cos they’ll kick you out of you break the rules, no?
I would suggest not making any promises you don’t intend to keep - not for them, but for your own integrity. Likewise if you have any prior oaths that conflict, do not take this oath, as it conflicts and will make you an oathbreaker, Again this is a matter for your personal integrity, but remember that a man cannot serve two masters.
The Masonic Oath <-- click here to expand
I, ___________, of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him and dedicated to the holy St. John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the secrets, arts, parts, point or points, of the Master Mason’s Degree, to any person or persons whomsoever, except that it be a true and lawful brother of this Degree, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Master Masons, nor unto him, or them, until by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear, that I will stand to and abide by all laws, rules, and regulations of the Master Masons Degree, and of the Lodge of which I may hereafter become a member, as far as the same shall come to my knowledge; and that I will ever maintain and support the Constitution, laws, and edicts of the Grand Lodge under which the same shall be holden. Further, that I will acknowledge and obey all due signs and summons sent to me from a Master Masons’ Lodge, or given me by a brother of that Degree, if within the length of my cable tow. Further, that I will always aid and assist all poor, distressed, worthy Master Masons, their widows and orphans, knowing them to be such, as far as their necessities may require, and my ability permit, without material injury to myself and family. Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason’s secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, m*rder and treason excepted. Further, that I will not aid, nor be present at, the initiation, passing, or raising of a woman, an old man in his dotage, a young man in his nonage, an atheist, a madman, or fool, knowing them to be such. Further, that I will not sit in a Lodge of Clandestine-made Masons, nor converse on the subject of Masonry with a clandestine-made Mason, nor one who has been expelled or suspended from a Lodge, while under that sentence, knowing him or them to be such. Further, I will not cheat, wrong, nor defraud a Master Masons’ Lodge, nor a brother of this Degree, knowingly, nor supplant him in any of his laudable undertakings, but will give him due and timely notice, that he may ward off all danger. Further, that I will not knowingly strike a brother Master Mason, or otherwise do him personal violence in anger, except in the necessary defence of my family or property. Further, that I will not have illegal carnal intercourse with a Master Mason’s wife, his
mother, sister, or daughter knowing them to be such, nor suffer the same to be done by others, if in my power to prevent. Further, that I will not give the Grand Masonic word, in any other manner or form than that in which I shall receive it, and then in a low breath. Further, that I will not give the Grand Hailing Sign of distress except in case of the most imminent danger, in a just and lawful Lodge, or for the benefit of instruction; and if ever I should see it given, or
hear the words accompanying it, by a worthy brother in distress, I will fly to his relief, if there is a greater probability of saving his life than losing my own. All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steady resolution to perform the same, without any hesitation, myself, under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven,
that no more remembrance might be had of so vile and wicked a wretch as I would be, should I ever, knowingly, violate this my Master Mason’s obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.
No this is getting way overblown. If you’re this worried about it don’t do it, because YOU will manifest what you fear, all by yourself, and then blame others for being your own worst enemy while deciding you can’t fix it because it’s been done to you not by you.
Nothing happens, this IS the planet of free will and you are fully aware of this. Curses must be kept secret as they are easy to break when known about. Conversely, some of the laziest mages just tell people they’ve cursed them so the target can curse themselves out of fear and save the effort. Don’t be that kind of target.
Define “linked”. Right here you just announced to the universe you’re not participating, and thus, you are not. Welcome to how magick works. It doesn’t need special circles and incense, you employ your will, really.
We already went over this above:
INTENTION IS EVERYTHING.
No. Set your intention as a mage and stop scaring yourself into a state, it’s not necessary.
Thank you @Mulberry Your answers always sound so reasonable to me. Don’t know why I always fall into this same trap, but then you come and remind me :))
You’re right, intention is everything. I’ll let that sink in.
Like @Mulberry already stated. For the most part most freemasons forgot the true spiritual meaning behind their organizarion and most of the rituals are mainly for show.
The knowledge and focus might differ a little per lodge, but at least this is what I learned from a freemason some years back when attending non-freemason related temple services in one of their lodges in my country. The fact that they are open to have other
You are or at least should be free to ask these questions and note any concerns to a lodge member when considering membership. It’s a very good idea to honestly ask how cancelling a membership works. How easy or hard it is can tell you a lot about the organization. As well as how a member reacts to that question.
Most FreeMasons aren’t into Esoterics. Its like what “M” said.. but one thing people may have not realized is that that 33rd Degree FreeMasonic Order her friend joined as well as others on this forum have mentioned is that it is only “Exoteric FreeMasonry.” That is Outer Sanctum. The Inner Circle or Inner Sanctum orders with actual Esoteric are only a few certain known ones or hidden orders that are essentially invitation only and/or you must actually have certain credentials to join such as Genetics or whatever else.
As for rituals.. you are basically asking to stand in someone elses Institutional/Organizational “Aura” to be a part of it while not trying to be a part of it. That in itself will create problems as sussing you out as an Infiltrator.. and in magick/spirituallity how would a “System” react as if it is a Living Organism? It activates its “White Blood Cells” to combat an infection that doesn’t look like it belongs.
It is much more like a college fraternity other than a a group thought experiment. Before I was made a master mason in the ante chamber the older members started a farting contest. I kid you not. The rest of the rite went pretty much the same. I was mortified. I had joined thinking that I had joined a great esoteric community. I went all through the Scottish and York rites to the top and unfortunately did not find it. It is true that there are a few ‘occult’ things in Masonry. However no mason I ever talked to knew about them. The 33d degree is by how long you have been in the Masons and how much money you have given it. I am a 32nd degree Scottish right and a Knight Templar in the York rite. I have read that some Masons in other countries might be more occultist.
I can’t personally speak on Masonry, but taking pleasure in a fart contest does not in itself prelude spiritual enlightenment. One of the 8 Taoist Immortals was well known for his fondness of belching and farting, for example. Laughter has long been considered divine and nothing deflates the pomposity of magicians quite like a farting contest lol
I understand what you are saying. However, the entire night was a complete farce. I was there to become a Master Mason something I had read about and thought about for over 30 years. I ended up the night with all of my dreams/hopes blown out of the water. I also had a wicked headache from another stunt they pulled. I stayed in and joined the Scottish and York rites to try and still find something I was looking for. I had built it up to be like joining the Golden Dawn. It turned out I joined a college fraternity. The rites are a mishmash of other ones from non esoteric groups etc. or they were stolen by them. I soon realized everyone else was in it to make business contacts and nothing else.
My great grandfather was an abu bekr grandmaster and I myself achieved status of most excellent master before turning 21 (which is actually quite an accomplishment, on that note its impossible to advance beyond that level unless a person is from a royal bloodline and owns 80 hectares of sovereign land) I soon left the order because things started getting weird, with that said I wouldn’t recommend it however my understanding is its more of facade for the darker secret societies these days being as its so widely known.
no not at all actually its talmudic kabbalah occasionally mixed with some hellenic egyptian/hermeticism however its different than what you might think of as hellenic pagan/gnostic hermeticism really nuanced and niche differences in concept that are actually huge ideologically. .
I’ve been interested in Freemasonry ever since I read Alan Moore’s “From Hell” as a teenager (it’s a great book, I highly recommend that anyone who hasn’t read it check it out…and it’s also the work that turned Moore into an occultist), but I also realize that the reality of contemporary Freemasonry is pretty banal, and nowhere close to the cosmic mindset of Sir William Gull (who is also Jack the Ripper in Moore’s telling).
Even in the graphic novel, Gull differs from his fellow Masons in that he actually believes in the powers of symbols and ritual (and, of course, in the power of blood). Yet he mocks groups like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn for having split from what he considers to be the nurturing “truth” of Freemasonry…even if Golden Dawn guys like W.B. Yeats are actually exploring the magick that Gull’s fellow Masons seem incapable of recognizing.
