Is our universe a high-end synthetic data farm?

This is a bit long but it’s a computational universe take on what ‘loosh’ could actually be. My conclusion - it’s likely novelty generation, like if you had a ton of AI’s needing really good, high quality synthetic data but rehashing too much of their content - you’d create some place with painfully arbitrary and static rules in order to make really high quality synthetic data.

I get that the AI topic is trending so it’s a goofy metaphor but what I’d be describing is any kind of computational system - biological, silica, gravitational galactic webbing, anything conducive to intelligence and agency flowing through them, with or without self-aware intelligence.

The gory details behind my reasoning (also if you’re particularly squeamish about philosophic pessimism, existentialism, or nihilism feel free to skip and take the synopsis above - gentle black pill warning):

We seem to live in a universe where consciousness seems like a brute fact rather than anything explainable. Materialists often try to say ‘mind / body problem is like saying stomach / digestion problem’ or ‘that’s wetness of water’. That suggests that people have unexamined strong emergentist leanings and if they really thought about those leanings they’d realize that no truly novel characteristic of a system can arise through complexity alone. What I mean by that - you can’t make a literal flying carpet for example by making just the right Persian rug in just the right thread count, just the right number of flanges and tassels to get your taxi cab ornament or be the coolest Lift driver ever, it’s not even properly descriptive to say it’s impossible, it’s better to say that it’s a category error.

If neurons aren’t somehow ‘magical’ (Michael Levin seems to be doing a great job at showing very self-aware biological agency seems to go down all the way to single-celled organisms) but are rather just a supped-up relay technology to make impulses travel faster, have better conducting of information with much richer information depth, that makes sense but it was a functional need from below - ie. survival under harsh Darwinian conditions - that fabricated that structure.

This is where when I look at what seems to stick in the world of magic, especially the kinds of things people like Dion Fortune would unpack, it really seems like magic is a kind of vertical information integration with a broader conscious system in the way Donald Hoffman and Chetan Prakash describe it in their theory ‘Conscious Realism’ or a conscious version of Stephen Wolfram’s hypergraph. Consciousness in our world is hard bound to certain nodes, the way Karl Friston describes these shells as Markov blankets.

Anyway - if you guys haven’t noticed - our culture pitches toward madness and conflict. You can look at various political theorists, you can look at well known existentialist and pessimist philosophers, you can see it in Camus and Kafka or you can read about it in Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Shestov, etc. - of which they varied from atheist to pantheist to theist so their grounding spin on the why of it is different. There are political philosophers who’d suggest that some degree of anarcho-tyranny is always happening and you only notice it when your government is trying to condition you and the culture around you in really unhelpful ways to someone else’s benefit or easier management. I think of these kinds of absurdities and frictions as the high quality synthetic data being created by hard-angled novelty driven by collision of arbitrary processes, not too harsh to have life but never lenient enough for anything to be boring. What’s frustrating about it though - lots of informationally boring redundancy, especially of truly horrific suffering, you could think of the hermit kingdom of North Korea and what it’s like to live there as a good example (my human brain tells me millions of people don’t need to eat the same crap sandwich if it’s an efficient novelty system), but this is forgetting that Darwinian evolution happens on a completely different timescale, it’s glacial and there’s rarely much to change notice within four generations so we hear about it but would never see it, just its causal echo.

I wouldn’t say I’m 100% certain of this, I’d give it maybe a 5-10% conviction but to even get it there, ie. like a plausible practical outgrowth of Conscious Realism, it seems to give a basic enough answer to ‘WTH is happening’ that can be falsified, tested, I’m sharing this because I think even if it’s not absolutely correct I think its ‘directionally’ correct and it would be interesting to hear what other people think when they look at this. What other threads I’m pulling - Jacques Vallee’s Messengers of Deception, George P Hansen’s ‘The Trickster and the Paranormal’, and I’d add that what metaphysical experiences I have had seem to better fit their kind of system.

The practical result of that - our universe, especially biological life, creates novelty at a particular pace and along very clearly defined rules of physics. What’s the value of that? Expertly conditioned data, and in a universe where there is nothing truly solid other than what mind-at-large fabricates from its own ‘mind stuff’ (it could be a really big Boltzmann brain, a natural unbounded artilect, infinite space and time is a lot of room for that to happen and I’d argue, sort of the panpsychist / pantheist / pan-functionalist version of the Nick Bostrom simulation hypothesis - incredibly likely that we live in the mind of a superorganism, especially when you have hard physics with synchronicities).

What that last part would mean? Imagine an infinite network of processing power with a limited amount of data, and so it’s recycling the same bland stuff, it gets bored. Eventually it gets to the point of budding more physical or other kinds of worlds, as experiments with consciousness to see what kinds of new data can be generated.

That feels like an incredibly cold story but… listening to stuff like Aleksandre Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago audio book or learning about stuff like Shirō Ishii’s Unit 731, Leopold II’s style of colonial extraction in the Belgian Congo, Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, the people who got stuck in Nazino Island, or ‘Cannibal Island’ gulag which got its name for a reason… yeah, that maps. It’s not about comfort, and especially not sanity. It’s about rich, high-density data.

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There’s a school of thought that all of reality is basically the universe/source/god learning about and exploring itself. Some use the word experiment. Some call it a game.

This is a relatively hostile planet, so theres a preponderance of interest and effort around survival and building comfort. I think it’s different in other parts.

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I’ve heard that as well but the only reason I’m a bit skeptical is that there seems to be a physics requirement to metabolism, to survival, and for other planets to have life that’s more neutral / less imperial in how it handles other life it would have to thread a very small needle-eye in terms of it’s history, what it had to do to survive, and what factors force it to evolve. Our form of destructive competition is based on the eukaryote setup where it’s always matching halves of the data from each parent, the evil there tends to be monopolistic competition over partners, gossip, slander, physical intimidation, mate value damage from people who are sadistically envious, etc., and if we were procaryote, ie. self-dividing like cells, then the the evil is that the creature who’d drown out all others is the creature that did nothing but eat and make copies of itself, ie. which didn’t look around and figure out what’s true (looking around and caring what’s true seems to be fatal or near fatal in either procaryote or eukaryote setup because both the physical world can’t understand it and the social world punishes first-principles thinking as not socially conforming to Darwinian pressures - Bret Weinstein’s talked about that problem often of first-principles thinking being roundly punished because… if I understand this right… it’s seen as an attempt at a non-Darwinian / non-genetic authority and that’s the only game that’s allowed to exist to that system, otherwise if it’s not superior genes and / or superior violence it’s fraud).

It could be that most species like us go extinct the moment we get enough technology (the whole metacrisis / x-risk conversation in parts of GameB), and if that’s the case maybe the remainder populations are those who were constructed by their history in such a way that they can survive technological explosions, that would just mean that a wild majority - like 99% get either to our point or a bit past it and either bomb themselves back into irrelevance or cease to exist.

My biggest skepticism though - finite beings will be unequal, if there’s any finite resource to compete over for survival that inequality tunes zero-sum competition and all it takes is some element of scarcity in that organism’s history to be internally (intraspecies) cannibalistic.

Well physics underlies the whole universe as a base to sustain everything. I think that’s by the by.
After that what spirit does with that is very variable.

Generally I think it’s a bit iffy to judge the entire universe by the Earth experience. We have no idea what it’s like elsewhere and it seems a stretch to just assume it’s all like this. That is very human though, projection is another aspect of the survival skillset - to try to anticipate threats.

Our brains are literally hardwired to take more notice of threat than anything good, and see the negative in all things first - we are the descendants of the people to survived precisely because they did that. Welcome to Earth.

I don’t know how to get out of ‘2nd law of thermodynamics and hard-bound physical and cognitive inequality with any scares resource makes life violent, cannibalistic, and zero-sum’. Those all seem like incredibly high-odds scenarios to run into with our physics and periodic table, which likely holds across the entire universe within quite narrow tolerances.

You could be right but I’d have to understand the mechanism that would allow mostly peaceful advanced species to exist either without serious predation from other species on their planet or without individual inequality / variance, or even just differences in depth (Slate Star Codex’s Dubrovnik style art-making rats vs. foraging rats where if the foragers eat enough then all have to forage - ie. Kegan 4 and 5 get forcibly collapse down to Kegan 3 or Kegan 2 when Kegan 3 or 2 bring the gauntlet of survival mode down in his 2014 essay ‘Meditations on Moloch’). It seems like an iron clad law that stupidity and baseness are the ultimate leverage because the stupid or base person forces other people to dance to their tune at gunpoint, or get shot. A well-adjusted person doesn’t even have the proclivity or wiring for that so in that context it’s a bit like someone walking in on Anton Chigurh and he’s got a hit to put on them. What that tells me - in a world filled with 100% well-adjusted people just one skilled psychopath or sociopath could go King Kong and enslave a good portion of the species, poison the hearts and minds of anyone who has to become ‘more like’ them to survive the world they created, physicality seems to make that a deterministic outcome. They’d have no defenses thus they’d have no prayer / no hope of stopping them. Similarly if you do have defenses or aren’t naive - you’re already in a world they run, not by cosmic authority but because willingness to use violence unprovoked and even being skilled at maximizing intimidation while minimizing legal risk - it wins because we’re hard bound to the physical and the physical wins, not the spirit. If things are bad enough the spirit likely gets mutilated beyond repair for something it had zero ‘karmic’ relation to, it was more of a geographic and temporal crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I’m not a big fan of the Earth model either. This is why ascending is important imo, because I do want to get off this planet, or improve it with telekinesis. All these issues go away if you can manifest food and shelter, or just don’t need to eat and are not affected by weather. All the violence on Earth is physical survival-driven and not a little unintelligent.

I think that’s what we’re here trying to find. This is part of ascending as a planet.

It doesn’t exist yet on Earth. I would find it strange if some other of the trillions of planets hadn’t already got there. I think some of those peoples could have incarnated as humans and be trying to help teach, but it’s pretty hard when you get a mind wipe in incarnating.

We’re not there yet, and we won’t be while the majority of humans stay in survival mode.

They all do that and they end up dying alone.

You have a fixation on survival and the physical as the most important thing. You’re judging everything by this human-animal standard. This is hardwired into our brains as well, via the amygdala, but I think it’s a lie.

So I believe in the immortal spirit. I feel like I’m two beings operating as one - the spirit and the animal co-creating a human life together. The animal agrees with you. The higher being is not that interested in ‘winning’ the survival game and more than it things winning a card game is important.

If you step back and remember that a human lifetime is a blip in your overall spiritual journey and that you are going to have to leave the animal behind anyway, and everything is just more experience, and all experience is valid, they you can stop judging it so much.

Animals are a cruel thing, I don’t like it. They are wired to want to survive and never will.
I think this is what kundalini gets you - you help the animal become a sovereign spirit so that it doesn’t die, and that’s part of the point of the animal being guided by an incarnate being, effectively possessing it in order to experience physicality.
But lets face it most of us are a bit shit at that part. It’s hard to even want to try, and in 1000 people that try less than one will make it.

I don’t see it this way. This is like saying water can get mutilated. I think various layers of the incarnated being can get changed by the experience, but the judgement part that’s so extreme in humans is part of the emotional body that gets shed when you transition (die) and go do something else.

I think of a human life like an extreme sport.

I get geared up and go do risky shit for the thrills and the experience. And then it’s done and I review what happened and use the info to improve my game for the next one.

MOST experiences in the universe are incredibly boring, or maybe blissfully boring, by comparison. I have a memory of being nothing but an elemental helping to build a planet for billions of years. All I did was flow through rock as part of it’s consciousness, holding it in reality. Even now I would not go back to that, I have evolved to do more now.

I don’t actually think of myself as human at all… I am a spirit having a human experience. I don’t see Earth as the center of my universe, or even a very important part of my overall spiritual journey.

The reasons the human experience is usually shitty are myriad and not worth my energy are the reasons I won’t be doing human again after this.

I think the design is fundamentally flawed - personally; That making sentient ascendable species out of apes was a bad idea. Trillions of spirits have given it a good go and proved that, as so few of us have succeeded, but I’m going to let the ones the believe in this model take it from here.

After that, while here the best we can do is help others and make the experience as easy as possible until we can get out and go find a better day elsewhere.

I’d agree that grinding consciousness against absolutely unforgiving and arbitrary forces tends to make us worse not better. What that engrained experience strongly suggests to those of us who only have this life as an experience - if the universe cares so little for embodied life, why would it be any more precious about disembodied life? That’s where black pill nihilism about the whole system is very difficult to escape without having some hard triangulation to something that can be found in the physical world that reliably bucks the trend regardless of the pressure, and human nervous systems while impressive under the auspices of highly self-aware people, still have the problem where enough force, enough pain, enough pressure, can make anyone crack - it’s just variable time based on inner strength. That a wicked enough person could destroy literally anyone’s mind if they’re artful enough about psychological and physical torture and prolonging it without rest or reprieve (ie. having a reason to put such dedicated work in to destroying a person) - they’ll ultimately succeed, and have a very difficult time believing that whatever was built in this life in terms of morals, values, beliefs, higher proclivities, can’t be completely and utterly erased by determined and dedicated evil.