Once you start to develop spiritually and get stronger energies, it is the dark side’s job to push us back, right? But if you consider that many of the so called demons we interact with are also Fallen angels (that was kicked out by the demiurge for protesting), the demiurge is definitively not to keen on that relationship evolving. So, the punishment some of us are experiencing might actually be caused by the Demiurge – God – himself. Not talking about God as the source here, but rather as the egregore created by us that thinks he was first etc, at least according to Kurtis Joseph’s channeling of Azazel in “Azazel – steal fire from the gods”.
“The Demiurge” has been a cause for debate for millennia.
Even the perception whether it is a malevolent or benevolent (but perhaps rather ignorant) entity is something even the gnostics or greeks can’t seem to agree on among themselves.
I’ve been going back and forth for as long as I first heard the term “Demiurge” between it being Yahweh or The Universe or Lucifer or some other being alltogether. Maybe even a title (like President Of The Universe) that any of these beings get for a while
All I know is that everything in this universe, however harmful has it’s purpose
All I can add to that thought is:
We are a microcosm, an emanation and/ or a mirror of the macrocosm. Whatever is external, especially in terms of entities or archetypes like god/ devil/ demiurge, is also within you and a part of you internally.
I’ve posted somewhere in some topic before that, as a thought experiment, I like to consider “the ego” as the demiurge of our microcosm sometimes.
It should be more than a though experiment in these cases. It has no use to focus on and blaming possible external forces for blocking your growth, you only succeed if you take on the responsibilities of your spiritual growth yourself. That means dealing with whatever is inside your own being that holds you back. Once you deal with that, you mirror/ emanate that outwards and the external has to follow suit.
The drive to spiritually evolve and ascend is something within yourself and you have all the tools to do so internally
and most important:
Do NOT take any of these terms, concepts or explanations literal.
Especially terms and concepts like “The Demiurge” and Source are gnostic in origin. The secret to all gnostic scripture is that none of it is ever meant as literal or factional. All of it is symbolic explanations and examples for some very abstract realities and processes.
You mean that gloomy old man? He destroyed many good people out of his own jealousy, but I think he is not absolutely evil, some people even have a good relationship with him and treat him as a friend.
He is one of many gods, the Vedas don’t lie, he always caused problems and did what he wanted, that’s exactly how I met him.
He hasn’t learned anything in all these years.
He’s just always been like that and always will be.
As for darkness, darkness turns against man because man’s nature does not completely resonate with it, even though man’s nature seems evil, and the body falls apart when there is too much of it.
This is bad karma or sin, at least that’s what he was trying to convey to me as I meditated on the nature of many diseases.
The Demiurge is the Matrix
It is the system of this world. You must work according to its laws, which you cannot overcome in the beginning with your current strength. Walk with it until you overcome it
It is neither evil nor good. It is a system like a computer system and has its own laws like the Hormuz Principles
Are you speaking specifically to Gnostics here? The demiurge is a specifically Gnostic invention. I’m not a gnostic and I don’t agree with their view here, so maybe my thoughts on this are irrelevant.
First of all I don’t see that anyone is being “punished”. That implies some higher being is making judgement calls and acting on humanity negatively on purpose… and if that’s a thing, which I don’t think it is, then that’s not punishment it’s honestly just abuse.
I actually don’t believe this demiurge exists. It’s a slightly infantilized notion that required humanity to be the lesser beings at the mercy of beings with more ability. maybe we are, but we are not lesser if we are abused by these things and we don’t “deserve” this in any case.
There’s shitty Elohim that get in our way, just as there are shitty humans that get in people’s way. I think this shiftiness is basically his is an artifact of living on an unstable, relatively hostile planet with physical bodies that have survival needs, and this also translates to off planet beings, whether they are made of energy or not. It causes all sorts of interesting psychological phenomena, and what better instrument to examine this experience than being in it and using the minds that are built out of it to do so?
Kicked out of where though? "Gods ‘grace’ "? Meaning, on the naughty list? Forced to incarnate as human with the mind wipe situation that entails - pretty good prison system some would say. So does “fallen” actually mean “incarnate”? If not there no such thing as “fallen” as a practical and identifiable state, it’s all political maneuvering by these entities.
You also have to consider that the bible in it’s original hebrew doesn’t say what it’s been made out to say in it’s mistranslations. For example the angel Gabriel was, in the Hebrew version, a physical man that basically raped Mary, and she was never a virgin she was a “young maiden”. That’s just an example, but the point is, before you get too invested in trying to figure out what it all means, you might want to read better translations available today direct from the hebrew, as well as the books that were thrown out, as you are frequently going to be working of incorrect information otherwise.
The word maiden refers to an unmarried young woman or girl and back in the days of the Bible, it was assumed that any unmarried woman was automatically virginal. If it was discovered that she was not, then her value as a prospective wife was destroyed and she was usually outcast by her family for being “unclean.” That’s why a married man could seduce a young girl and be blameless for it while all the consequences would be on her head. It would literally ruin her life.
When it was translated into ancient Greek, that language apparently did not have a word that differentiated between them. So when the Greek was translated into other languages they had a choice of “virginal” or “young maiden” nd they went with virginal. However in the original Hebrew, according to at least one hebrew scholar, there WAS a difference, and the Greek translation was the start of this misunderstanding.
This is the lecture I heard this at: sorry for the clickbait title, the lecture actually has nothing to do with “control of humanity” or related politics, it’s all about this author, Mauro Biglino’s work around bible translations directly from the original Hebrew. Italian dubbed into English.
In my eyes, God in the New and Old testament are two different gods, as clearly indicated by their different personalities.
Add to that:
Kingu/Lucifer was the first created sentient being by Tiamat/Source.
Kingu/Lucifer was defeated by the Annunaki god Marduk (in the Void)/demiurge.
Lucifer incarnated into our reality as Jesus, which explains why Jesus called himself “The Lightbearer”. (my guess/logical reasoning)
This in turn means that when Jesus spoke about his Father in heaven he actually meant Source.
The Annunaki made us worship Marduk under the name Jahve.
So, Old Testament God = Jahve/Marduk(/and probably the demiurge) and New Testament God = Source.
This brings up the question whether anyone has worked with Source.
For clarification:
According to Kurtis Joseph’s channeling of Azazel, Lucifer was the first created sentient being by Source. Then the rest of the Watchers were created, then the Earth and then humanity. The demiurge was created when humanity faltered in their beliefs, and the demiurge thought he was the first creation and magnanimous, because that was what humanity thought.
Exactly! One must walk with it until one has grown sufficiently strong to survive on our own, and on the way to strength He will hold you back since it is not in His interest to lose you. This has been my biggest problem with leaving Him, because he helps so much, both me and my close ones.
But, Neither evil nor good… I think he serves his own self interest, and it is not in his interest to lose his worshippers - us, especially to Fallen angels. And the Fallen angels are on the same side as New Testament God who is Source.
Actually, know that I think about it, Christians already follow Source rather than Jahve, so it probably is all right. What an epiphany, problem solved!
I do not particularly speak to Gnostics, I just use their word.
Not necessarily punished. I allude to the classic talk abut once you rise in vibration and energy levels, gets filled with more light, you pop up on the radar of the dark side and they begin blocking you. At least that was what I used to think, but I suspect it might actually be the demiurge doing it, working through humans or various spiritual beings.
I think one reads so many channeled demons saying that God did not create everything, Source did.
Elohim = Annunaki as far as I know.
Perhaps, but mostly kicked out of the Matrix, maybe from our spiritual/physical reality bubble in the Void.
I wouldn’t know about that…
The Bible is indeed filled with mistranslations, but thankfully we have The Naked Bible to fix that.
His ultimate goal is not your ultimate goal
You are helping him, but you are also food for him. Whether or not you ascend spiritually, he is not seeking to hinder you. Either way, you will be useful food for him.
Jesus is also the Demiurge, just different names
It can be said that the Gnostics follow the Source but today’s Christians follow the Demiurge
You’re all taking the bible and the other symbolisms way too literal ^^. Shit’s not facts, it’s allegory. All of it is allegory. The bible, the gnostic texts, everything!
The “virgin birth” is symbolic for the process of how this macroverse came into being and a number of chain reactions because of it.
It doesn’t even matter if Jesus was a real person or not. The whole story is symbolism, an allegory of how the (abstract) process of enlightenment and ascending works (the true “RHP” way)
In Gnosticism, Rosicrucianism, Christian Mysticism etc. The story of how the teacher Jesus became The Christ (only after his crucifixion and resurrection) is very much an example of how to break with old ways and habits that keep you chained to the material (the demiurgial/ archonal influence, if you will) and how to find “Source” internally and learn to align with “Source” externally.
It’s mainly misunderstood and people keep worshipping the external and material over finding “god” internally. Which is fine, things like these are never meant as a large global movement of enlightenment. Just for the few that are ready for it and resonate with it. Just like true enlightenment through Buddhism, Sufism, study of The Vedas etc. is only possible for a few, while the masses keep on mainly misunderstanding most of the teachings.
I am not that familiar with the biblical stories of Jesus anyway, mainly the gnostic texts. I’ve also never really like the pure Christian stories as a kid/ teen, but one thing I’ve always found very funny. In many Gnostic texts, in between his teachings, Jesus regularly shits on his disciples about the ways they choose to honor “their god” he holds no punches while doing that either.
Yes, the Holy Books are symbolic, but our conversation here is still correct, as Yahweh symbolizes the Demiurge
The beauty of the Holy Books is that they symbolize many things in one symbol
The problem is only related to Christianity, unlike Islam and Gnostic religions
It is that it combined several personalities into one personality, which is Jesus, as He became God and Savior
Just my opinion here… For me the Demiurge was a concept to fill our need to escape the pain and, at the same time, find someone to blame for the bad things in the world when in fact, most things are chaotic and have no defined cause or have many variable causes.
It is not new that human beings saw our world (full of plagues and killings) and thought of a paradise or something after matter that would bring us freedom from this pain or bring us happiness. I believe that everyone should follow their own path, some people want to escape the matter and become full astral, other wants to be living in full material world and other want the best of these two realms (me in this case). In the Book of Azazel, it is said that our world is not something impure and rotten but rather a pure materialization of energies from other realms and dimensions.
Eshtalishtu holds the knowledge and the power of transmutation. When evoked, he is quick to explain that the assertion of modern “alchemists” that “True Alchemy is the transmutation of impure human elements into that which is divine” is entirely false, and indeed is quite the opposite of reality. According to Eshtalishtu, the greatest alchemy is the transmutation of the Divine Particle into matter. This understanding furthers the idea presented to me throughout this entire ninety-day Operation that this physical realm is not the impure and outcast plane of existence, but that it is the final condensation of an intentional spiritual will
In this same book there are spirits from Azazel’s Legion that are said to teach immortality and how to transfer your soul to other bodies (not saying that these are veritably true, but it just proves that our world should not be run away from it must instead be shaped according to our will.
In my own experiences, one of the best offerings you can make to Daemons and other spiritual beings is physical effort and crafts on their behalf. Even in the book Demons Of Magick, it is said that a good offering would be to offer a physical sensation to the Daemons (the taste of a fruit, the appreciation of a sensation…)
It’s a little unfair to put the problem on the whole of christianity (generally gnostics are christians too btw ;P). It’s actually a small group that considers Jesus literally as god (although they appear to have the loudest voice) and in that small group there are still a bunch of views that see the new testament god as somewhat different from the new testament god.
Anyway, any conversation about this is valid. Just sharing some general viewpoints and insights.
I get the need for viewing something like “the demiurge” as an external being. It makes it easier to comprehend a concept like that. Especially since it stems from centuries ago when most of us humans weren’t as capable of abstract thought yet.
My biggest “problem”, however, with considering, pointing out (and blaming) some external being whether you call it “God”, The Savior, The Devil or The Demiurge or Yaldabaoth… is in most cases it also inherently causes people to stop taking responsibility for their own growth or even their own actions.
Which is I find a little saddening sometimes, especially in communities that know how to view things as symbolic.
I did not blame anyone,I was just pointing out that the reason for not understanding the symbols of the Bible is because current Christians do not understand what Jesus is
God and Savior became one person
Christianity consists of several sects such as Catholic or Orthodox
But the Gnostics are closest to the truth
Christian Gnosticism, like Islamic Sufism, has very different beliefs from the dominant official religion
There are entire countries that believed in Gnostic Christianity and that Jesus was not crucified, but they were exterminated in the Crusades.
I agree with that. At least most of the gnostic views still seem somewhat logical, even if you view existence through a very scientific lens.
Again, not all christians, just the few that seem to scream the loudest. But yeah, it’s a little weird indeed. If you view him as an actual historic person. He is still supposed to be the son of God. Did God retire without a retirement party? Or… (and my favorite way to imagine it) does Jesus walk around heaven like a typical entitled little “son of the boss” shit that demands everyone to call him “boss” or “god” as well when daddy’s not looking?
Do not the Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, and others believe that Christ was crucified and ascended to heaven and that they are the same person?
The majority of Christians around the world believe this,of course, there are other sects, but they are few, Many of these sects were exterminated by the dominant sect
When I said the problem is related to Christianity, I meant the issue of the Demiurge. It is the only religion I have seen that confuses the Demiurge (the Matrix) and the Savior (Neo).
Surely you have watched the movie The Matrix, it is a completely Gnostic philosophy
As the “demiurge”? I don’t think this the case. Jesus said “I am my father”, where father refers to the All or source, but he was not a Gnostic, that religion came much later - he was a Nazorean which is a sect of Judaism. So no this is not the demiurge and that concept doesn’t exist the same way outside of Gnosticism, and yhwh is not the demiurge, it’s an El. I don’t think it helps to keep conflating these concepts and ignore the nuance within them.
But he is not the son of the demiurge, he is the son of Source if he is an incarnation of Lucifer/Kingu who’s father is Source.
This also explains why the demiurge followers hunted him, and why he opposed Judaism - they were on opposite sides. It also explains the current attack on Christianity throughout the world.
