@Lady_Eva does this post really need to be taken down? I do express my experiences, more than just the story at the end, I feel it does offer value and sort of feel @norse900 removing it is sort of making many points here confirmed. I have had other topics like get way more off topics by moderators none the less like my life after death topic became a thread about inferno mermaid ubis for example.
I think even though I tried to express a point I do express my experiences that differ from how the forum normally views things. My point is I care about the spiritual growth of the community and @Keteriya does in fact make some good points but it misses the point when I see people dismissing things for being outside peoples frame of reference, I think people are often dealing with the real spirits and we are dismissing them and hurting them and ourselves by dismissing their experiences. How do we warn students of the bigger things when we stop them at 'oh silly you, it’s an imposter?"
I am feeling very dismissed to get into a debate with @norse900 and end it with him taking it down.
You warn them and move on with your day imop. Sometimes it’s rather clear that it’s an imposter or parasite and not a test. Tests have a distinct feeling and pattern, and after a few you can easily discern which is which for you personally.
I understand what you are saying about sometimes dismissing things before we should, but you are forgetting that we very recently had a forum member that was intentionally spreading parasites. It took nearly 3 months to track down who it was, and then it was only because most of what he was doing was being done as offerings of free familiars, free rituals, free readings and scans. At first we just noticed the increase in those things, and had no idea it was happening on purpose. Helping those people who didn’t know how to handle it and tracing back who was experiencing an infection and noticing they all had free work done by this magician, was actually how it was discovered.
Most of the discussion for this was not public however. It was mostly in pms, though occasionally a lounge post as many of the regulars were involved in trying to get people the rather basic help they needed.
The individual was trying to drum up business for his occult practice. He would help them for something free, send them imposters and parasites, then when they had issues that took 1-4 weeks to show up, he’d pm them and offer to help them for a price.
We aren’t intentionally being phobic, it’s just that people like that are all over, including here. The best thing we can do is advocate safety, talk about normal trial and test situations and help people be aware of the negatives. Some of us do speak up about the bad experiences, but usually those posts don’t get many views or likes. Trust me I’ve tried. Offer something free though? I’m guaranteed to get plenty of likes and views.
Stirring the drama pot however, doesn’t actually help your agenda. The more you argue against legit need for awareness and basics, or seem to- the more you discredit yourself as the impression you give is the opposite of experienced, and it comes across as a rampage and attempt to validate your practice.
If you’re practice is sound, there is no need to validate it to anyone, be it here or anywhere else. The type of posts you make trying to do so though, actually lead to the responses you get, that you dislike so hard
I’ll add it’s possible we are missing some encounters with legitimate entities, however that’s where I try to remind people that they are the operator, and if an entity is doing something flaky, you need to remember that and not become their food. Real entities can, do and will use people. That is why it is important to maintain operatorship. They are the spirit, you are the operator. It needs to be clear. I’ve said it many times, but you never seem to be around for those.
Lilith is a queen she is not free of responsibility, really shows what you know about these entities but not surprised, and using bi-location doesn’t change that, we have the ability to bi-locate as well doesn’t mean it doesn’t put strain on the energy body and yes they have energy bodies and yes they deal with it as well. Of course it sounds like an imposter to you, but in the end I don’t deal with thoughtforms and I know how to tell the difference unlike a handful of people that get mad when a simple suggestion is given.
If you can’t tell the difference between an imposter’s energy and the being you’re seeking energy you have no room to argue or complain about people further experienced simply making sure newbies protect themselves.
The main reason why parasites and imposters are brought up is because many dive into evocation for the first time without developing senses, methods of protection, or even banishment. By bringing it up and teaching methods to prevent them through our tutorials, that possiblity can be eliminated and we can get into the meat of the subject. The downside to that is problem you have mentioned, where any negative experience has the parasite label slapped on without eliminating all possiblities.
Any spirit (god, demon, angel, whatever) can attack and be nasty, for whatever reason. It is foolish to believe all will be nice to oneself (for example, Alastor is not exactly known for being kind whether you are looking at his Christian or Greek lore). Whatever a spirit can be called upon for can easily be done to the magician. Hence why it is important to protect the self.
At the same time, parasites and imposters (as it is easy to shift the outer parts of your energtic body and make a claim to be someone else) do exist as well, so labeling all negative spiritual experiences stemming from the popular spirits is also unwise. Ultimately, both scenarios can be dealt with through the same methods. The main way to tell the difference would be to 1) use the techniques meant to prevent parasites and imposters and 2) repeat the evocation to see if you get a similiar result. If the result from the repeating evocation is pretty much the same, you know that is not a spirit to be worked with.
If that’s how you interpret the demonic and it works for you then that’s great. You’re not the first person nor the last person to humanize these things because magicians have asked them to take human form and speak intelligibly since people started evoking them.
I personally don’t see them existing in such a limited fashion because I understand that they’re all aspects of the one/all power/infinite/etc. and it’s their job to help us realize and understand what our true self is. Once this is realized initiation is over.
Anyways I’m not the first person to think this and some traditions teach this as well. Like I said it’s really what works for you.
Hmm well that’s fine. I was confused by the thing that said it will be taken down.
If norse is muting me, I guess I can’t ask him about this, but I was considering his view and started wondering about a journal, if I was to make my own journal as he suggested would I be able to update my post to the new subject my newest entry I was making or would that be against the rules. It would probably make a big difference for me but wonder if this would be breaking the rules or could I do this?
I was saying earlier that the distinct feel or pattern can be mimicked, for example once I changed my auric energy that I was given off to one of Azazel’s exact energy patterns or are you talking about something different? It would be like someone using an avatar with Donald Trumps face and thinking you were talking to a Verified trump account.
Okay cool I like what you are saying here.
Reading the rest, I sort of get it, somethings are still a just a bit out of my frame of reference.
As in what I was saying earlier about “that we fight for our frame of reference” So I just want to get clear on processing this because you told me something like this before
I read parasites and I wonder does she mean the entity was taking a very small amount of energy barely noticeable, or like when my demons themselves were pretending to be Jesus, which was more of a medium, or like when I had hard core parasites biting, clawing or sucking up big portions of my chakras.
You might not see a point to that, but how would you rate the experience they were having? From not noticeable, to barely to hard core ubis? I find people have a tendency to view thought forms as really bad and suspicious but all my parasites have always been the demons, so my bias is sort of opposite, also was his thought forums really powerful like demons? Can one do that within one life time? If so is it possible he did it by accident, told his thought forms to drum up business but wasn’t being careful enough for what he wished for? I don’t wish to defend him exactly he sounds pretty crappy if it is as you say it is. I think it is a bit off for me but I think I’m starting to get it. I may sound like a fool here but I keep telling people they can bi locate, copy exact energy patterns and people sort of block that out cause they don’t have a frame of reference for it.
Hey with this guy would it be bad to say have you been talking to this particular individual? Or would that be bad? That might be an easy place to start.
Sorry if the above paragraphs make you feel a bit Dizzy Devil, I maybe loving this new frame of reference concept and analyzing too much but then again maybe a better and less pot stirring way to bridge our understandings.
A part of me loves arguing though I’m growing tired of it and would rather do something like the above. I’m a bit nervous to offer free thought forms, they’re sort of like my babies and I’m nervous about people messing with them, any advice on that?
I know I am sounding like from one extreme to the other but it seems every possible sense can be tricked if the spirits really wanted to and banishments actually tend to do very little, so how should we go about things?
I think you are especially not listening to what I am saying.
more a joke than anything.
Just asked her, she agreed with you, she has the responsibility to rule over surfs, so I guess I sort of can agree with you on something, now sort of agree with me on something, make an effort.
It’s a bit easier for them.
But as for the rest would you say demons are never parasitical?
From my experiences demons once evoked stick by your side and would rather not go back to Hell.
Maybe you think I am Micky Mouse and every time I evoke a high ranking demon, they are just some wussy parasite but I’m just to dense to do an LBRP?
How many more times do I have to say I have mimicked their energy patterns myself?
You are fooling yourself if you think just because you recognize an energy pattern it can’t be duplicated exact just to fool you. Really this paragraph… …
…Should just as easily apply to you too.
Energy patterns mean that little!
From the Belial post hey? What’s up?
It made me super mad that everyone was calling your Belial experience a fake.
I love Belial and know him pretty well, I have been through a fair bit of his good side and bad side, I talk to him everyday, I believe this was really Belial.
I’ve been thinking a bit about your situation and what more I could say for advice. Maybe PM me about that. But yeah seeing so many people like the post that said he was an obvious parasite when it really sounded like him to me made me mad and was what made me upset enough to write this post. I hated the way you were being treated.
I agreed that these beings can be parasitical I’ve mentioned that many times before through your raging posts that you’ve chosen to overlook. Also it’s a bit easier for anyone who took the time to work on it them being them don’t make it any easier or harder. I do not do LBRP I never needed it. I’ve stated countless times that Paimon, Belial, Lilith, etc can be complete assholes and parasites if they wanted to and to deal with them accordingly if you have the skill to do so. Do not group me with those that ride the coat tail of the goetia.
Given my entire practice has been scanning and soul work you’re fooling yourself in thinking you’re mimicking their core energy when you’re just mimicking the outer layer, you’re only fooled if you have the incapability to go further than a surface scan.
It applied to me once before but I protect myself and I can tell the difference between someone playing make believe by taking on the outer layer of another’s energy than someone’s core energy and can tell the difference if you cannot tell the difference between copying the outer layer from the core energy then you need not bring me back up in this part of the conversation because I do not feel up for going in circles on that aspect.
I believe you said that before, I believe I remember now. So if they use a filter to mimic, can you tell the difference. There are certain universal filters, have you ever experienced those, If I didn’t do Azazel’s core energy I might not want to the program I’m already with has enough sneakers to it to mimic energy. I’m doing sugar mimics, the sugar program is bad enough, I think I want to stay away from the dark program.
Some of what we go through is tough to try to explain both ways. I’d love to hear more but it sounds like these are things we’d have to experience for ourselves, we’d really have to do an akashic record swap of these things to know, but that might be going overboard for our argument. I am curious though.
Okay @Velenos the experiences are a bit abstract and hard to argue, but I thought of a few things. Here is what I have experience. I feel an energy that is usually a bit scary but once I embrace it it feels either euphoric or goes away entirely, but the being is still there, what I find though is my experiences will match to someone else’s in their personality.
Anyways I don’t think I should recommend taking on these filters, dark or sugar, I found out when I did Azazel’s filter it was exact and I’m in a bit of trouble for it, slap on the rest since I haven’t done this too much but don’t do this stuff anyone!
But what I experience is filters more than a true mimic, it should in theory be more exact because beyond this I feel little energy at all. You sense an outer layer and something in the core that can’t be mimiced or made into a filter? What’s that like?
I don’t mean the energy. I mean the actions. For examples a test will often push you to the limits of what you are willing to do, take you out of your comfort zone and test your operatorship. I’ve never had a known entity pretend to be another known entity or tell me what I wanted to hear instead of what I needed to hear. Those are things imposters and parasites tend to do. They tend to make big promises, change their answers almost whimsically etc. A real entity rarely will hang around all the time, because the goal is to teach you how to do the magic stuff without their aid. They will even disappear from your life when you think you need them most, to give you space to figure out what is actually going on.
Imposters and parasites tend to show up to newbies, those that don’t practice any sort of spiritual hygiene and have no idea what to do if something bad does happen. People that are desperate for results and will do anything to get them.
I mean like when they make a person nearly delusional. When they are feeding on those desperate for results and giving high and mighty promises and asking ridiculous prices for it. I mean when they cause a person to seek help two, three, four times and sometimes even daily in the span of a week or a month, and then the person rejects all help, because the entity feeding on them, convinces them that nothing will work, or nothing is wrong. It often mimics mental illness. Encounters will have lots of phenomena and be very extravagant compared to what a real operator encounters on a regular basis.
Entities will often test your operatorship, by asking you to do things you’ve got moral and ethical issues with, or that you are sure you don’t want to do. Those are often tests to see if you will hold your ground or flake and allow the entity to walk all over you. Real entities don’t want to work with a flake in a teaching capacity, but they will almost always accept a willing food source for shits and giggles. If it’s a simple business exchange, a real entity isn’t going to usually test you. It’s usually in long term relationships.
Thoughts are usually very weak, unless they are well seated into your mind. Stop giving them attention and they disappear.
They obviously can bilocate. Every member of this forum could summon the same demon at the exact same time and get a face of that demon. That doesn’t mean you get it’s undivided attention or that it doesn’t have things to do in it’s own realm.
Think about it. They all have agendas. What for? Why do they have agendas if it isn’t to further their purpose in life, in their realm. We have legit members that have helped train lower ranking members of demon legions so that they could eventually ascend into the same as the demons that are commonly known and take their place and name, while those demons move on up so. Really I think there’s more to it than you are allowing yourself to see. I wouldn’t worry to hard on it though, most people don’t want to hear that the entities have an agenda, and oh well if they have an agenda there must be a reason why…
As far as copying another entities energy, I’ve never had an entity do that, and if they did I would show them the door. I am the operator not a fool and they don’t need to play games with me, they can either get with the program or go harass someone that will let them walk all over them. A real entity doesn’t give too shits however, if we fall victim to an imposter trying to pretend they are the said entity though, that just shows the real entity that the operator doesn’t maintain control over the operation and isn’t worth their time.
The member is no longer with his. He engaged in illegal forum activities and was removed for those activities. Another member did try speaking with him on it, and he claimed to have no idea that he was doing it, then continued to do it anyways. Doesn’t sound like someone who didn’t know any better to me.
Neither does the pattern of offering to save the person in exchange for a price when the problem crops up.
I one program my servitors that are publicly released so that they cannot be reprogrammed by anyone but me. I two use protective measures on the servitors, just like I do myself. I also learned that if you have an entity give it a particular type of soul, it can’t be tampered with by mortals and as part of my agreement in these cases, they are bound to the programming they were created with. Whether or not you have an entity willing to empower your servitors and give them divine souls however, is not within my purview of this topic.
It may be so, but I didn’t read that thread. I did however read another thread where you called fake imposter, and the member came back a week later. They’d had an encounter with the real demon that explained they had indeed been played for a fool, and so they were apologizing for being an asshole to members who just wanted to help them.
You have got to remember that is the goal when people say are you sure you got the real thing. It’s to make the person ensure they are safe before proceeding. If they are not safe, you handle it by banishing and protecting. If it turns out it is the real entity then you need to either stand the fck up for yourself and stop letting them mop the floor with you, or you need to find another entity to work with.
I am going to remute because this is going in circles and I don’t find it to be productive for anyone. I was just pointing out that you are right to an extent, but not by any means completely and anyone who thinks it’s okay to let a legit entity walk all over them and play tricks on them, really needs to reconsider who they work with. It happens, but that should not be a standard for the expected encounter, unless you want to be a human meat bag just supplying the entities with food in exchange for an occasional favor. You can be respectful, without being a meat bag.
If you wouldn’t let a person fck with you, why would you let a spirit fck with you. Be the operator.