Implications of Ahriman's goal


#1

I’m dumbfounded by the power in this book. Absolutely amazed. You’ve channeled something amazing here.

What I’m curious about now is just how deep the endgame for this goal is. I know it’s Ahriman vs Ahura Mazda yet I’ve always viewed things through the Taoist lens of Yin & Yang (Tao Te Ching) and as I read I’m getting the sense that this is primordial Yin’s war on Yang, anthropomorphized. Hoping it doesn’t reach that deep.

I get the sense that it’s a bit more poetic than that as it’s darkness against “false light” yet it’s a all a bit to wrap my head around. I just know I’m feeling a pull like I’ve never felt before. I sense that after the goal is achieved it won’t be the obliteration of the Tao and one side of the Yin Yang. Hermetic laws will still exist and there will still be darkness and light, just from an older way of being before monotheism/stasis/limitations/actual darkness was born.

I’ve read the phrase “Finding the brightest light in the deepest darkness” and that invokes the Yin Yang as well. Things in excess become their opposites. That little white dot represents the extreme yang whereas the black dot represents extreme yin. I could go way into jungian psychology and I have a lot of personal meditations on this subject I’ve written down. I’d like to know, am I on to something here? There’s so many implications and poetic expressions in this book it’s remarkable. It’s also quite confusing when taken completely literally and the meta goal is like trying to envision the planck era from our cosomological history.

I’d like to hear anyone’s thoughts on this. I doubt that it’s a war on the deepest duality itself though I get the feeling that’s alluded to when reading and pondering this text.


#2

Sounds like you are definitely on to something important for your Ascension. I’ve never heard of that text you speak of, but I think you’re entering the realm of the black flame through implosive black hole anti-creation. The black hole is a deep object of realization in meditation. I see so many people the past couple of days on this forum coming to terms with great subjects of revelation. The magicians of the world are being imbued with extreme Powers. Tap into the noosphere and implode your third eye, see what happens.


#3

What I found as an explanation or easier to understand analogy is the powers of the Darkforce vs the Lightforce. The Darkforce consumes the Lightforce and grows stronger but the light can just as easily repel the darkness and destroy it. Neither truly came before the other except in perception and both are necessary to truly evolve. Look at Bardon’s electromagnetic volts and what do you notice? That the magnetic fluid or darkness always surrounds the electric fluid or the light. They balance each other by their forces in such a way that as one grows in power the other also grows and in a dynamic that contains infinite potential for change. I find it is more about consuming the light to bring it within but not actually destroying it but balancing it by becoming the source, the neutral power between the two settles the conflict of forces into the dynamic of the volt, the darkness on the inside surrounding and harnessing the light that would otherwise disperse itself without the means of concentration.

I don’t agree with all the ideology and phrasing of the book seeing it as just one mans interpretation of these forces and principles that while conceptually represents the same him is not set in a way to be true for me and so it needs analogy and experimentation to find the true concept as it applies to my use and for others. For example a fruit that is round grows on a vine and red inside vs a vegetable that grows upon a vine and is red all the way through; both those phrases describe a tomato but can be seen as different enough to not truly be the same but to one person one phrasing will make sense and will be immediately understood while the other is something else entirely. That sort of analogy though I didn’t quite use the best example and tomatoes are often considered both a fruit and vegetable in some circles despite scientifically being a fruit.

The key to understanding it is to relate the text and forces through analogies to a reference you know of and can work from to understand the rest. Kurtis Joseph even says a few times through the book from what I have seen to go based on your own experiences even indirectly implying you should ignore everything he is saying in terms of philosophy and ideology if your experience with those forces points contrary. So the content at its base is rather good I just don’t go as much for some of the phrasing and presentation and kinda feel it is a bit over the top but then again I mostly like things presented in fairly objective technical formats for many things where the balance of forces is clearly seen.

Now if you are familiar at all with the Warhammer 40k universe for example you know the chaos gods are living embodiments of the psychic energy of existence and life in relation to various forces, concepts, and powers that reached a critical stage and through the collective consciousness developed their own being so they are good examples of say Ahriman and the Divs in both being internal and external but ultimately originating from yourself. Ahura Mazda is also such a being representing an internal force same as Ahriman and the Divs at the end of the day but represents a personification of the scattered powered and dogma. So a living personification of all dogma and scattered ineffectual will. In effect he is the electric fluid when not contained or utilized as ultimately expansive to its own ineffectiveness and detriment it is be the application of darkness or the magnetic fluid that the light can be focused and applied to great effect either as a dominant influence or a guiding force the darkness that cannot guide itself or in perfect balance. The downside the magnetic fluid or darkness is that without the expansive and guiding power of the light to draw and guide it through influence it is ultimately stagnant through its own consumption. It can be seen also as Will and Imagination. One without the other is wasted but both combined gives rise to intent and action leading to change.

Rather longer and more rambling than I intended but that is what I am getting so far. Also the relation to the Darkforce and Lightforce I was led to by a certain project as the analogy to start with to balance the powers involved.


#4

Scientifically, a tomato is a fruit but, culinarilly it acts like a vegetable. It’s not that anyone actually believes that it’s not a fruit, except in ignorance or error.

In the immortal words of Mike Kingston, “Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.”

Slava Bogum


#5

Yeah they are weird like that. A lot of people I have met thinks they are vegetables probably because it is used as a vegetable so much and I also blame V8 vegetable juice. It has tomatoes in it but because it is called vegetable juice many people just pass tomatoes off solely as vegetables kinda why I chose that example since it was easy and for many people one wouldn’t equal the other when it actually does depending how you look at it. Great now I want a salad… sigh…


#6

That’s weird, I’ve never met someone who legitimately didn’t know that tomatoes are fruits. A lot of people don’t know that cucumbers are also fruits, but that’s more arcane and almost never naturally comes up in conversation.


#7

Might just be a regional thing perhaps or maybe more a ‘class’ type thing. A lot of people around here are not exactly your most educated sort and I’ve lived in fairly small towns through my life with a lot of people that are just too blind and lazy to give anything but cursory attention to what counts as fruits or vegetables.


#8

And then there’s the type I’m surrounded by who insist that you are “a special kind of stupid” any time you pose a question that challenges a narrative they believe in only to look like an idiot once you’ve made a living off of following said train of thought…

A lot of really dumb “intellectuals” around here who would put tomatoes in a fruit salad and then wonder why it has such an odd taste. Must be “hidden gluten” or something… Couldn’t be anything that’s blatantly obvious with 2 seconds of actual experience. Buzzfeed told them it’s a fruit!

Any chance they get to go from zero to “PATRIARCHY!!!” in an instant and they’ll take it and suddenly you’re fascist against whatever they feel like …because tomatoes.

Fuck it, I’m diving into the abyss of this current. Nothing more irritating than the idea of Thoughtcrime and being censored by people who do the very thing they accuse you of being. We can’t talk about most of it explicitly on here and that’s part of why.

(Not BALG, given that they published it. Business is business and the current climate of thoughtcrime made that a necessity. Hopefully that necessity dies so we can go back to an open forum on here without any risk of the company being a target legally/socially.)

Time to dissolve the barriers. I’ve got wild ambitious plans and I sense this path will make that possibility an inevitability in due time.


#9

People are indeed weird. Just be sure to find the translation of the work that syncs to your own being is the important part however that is you wish to interpret it. I find so far the best results with what I’ve gotten to so far comes from pulling from one extreme to the other and then harmonizing the two to form a powerful dynamic but however you do it don’t lose sight of the ultimate goal. As to thought crimes and such that is where analogy and metaphor really come in to exploit loopholes.


#10

isn’t there a risk in bringing in two completely contradictory forces into one’s body-mind unit. May not be the case in electric and magnetic fluid but It does seem that aligning oneself with One particular currently strongly and only using that to ascend as far as one can is the best.

For example one reason one’s guardian entities remove one’s protection when persuaded is if the person isn’t aligned with that entities current entirely or is more drawn towards the opposite current.

I am sure many here who work with and imbibe energies of 2 completely opposing current will have some problem in near or far future as energies like this and this entities ARE FAR MORE INTELLIGENT than most can imagine AND HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA. ( Hope you are getting where I am indicating at )

Holding to just one current and ascending as far as one can in that current seems to be ideal as any given current has many higher level of attainment which most of us don;t even know.

Any thought you have on this?


#11

I think he’s getting at that once you master two extreme ends of a spectrum you get everything in between no matter the gradient.

At my core I’m still a Chaos Magician and I take what works from what I find and let the chips fall where they may. That said I’m following BMoA very carefully when I begin practice. The rest of existence? I’d evoke an Archangel and Lucifer in the same ritual if it made sense to. I evoke Archangels and Goetic Gatekeepers in the same ones already. Power is just power. They have agendas yet the hierarchy has you at the top so long as you act as a God when doing so


#12

well the thing is I have seen the two forces Darkness and Light at wars and in the most subtle way COUNTLESS times. And light vs dark is THE MOST PRIMARY ARCHETYPE in any culture - Civilization. For some reason I just can’t believe that Forces SO big and Powerful with intelligence and PLOT , kind of plot hardly any human can fathom will suddenly stop working for a neophyte magician who has done just 5 evocation in ( Not talking about you or others here, I think I have done even less :wink: ) his life .


#13

Certainly if it gets out of control but it is no different at its base than taking in say fire and water at once. They are extreme ends along their own spectrum. Light and Darkness are themselves just manifestation of the electric and magnetic fluids and fall under their dominion. You are not drawing the personification of these forces but on the forces themselves and on the source of them all. In affect you put yourself in position to be the source from which everything originates and everything returns. You become the neutral balancing factor. As to currents you would draw on the forces in the current you are working with so in the case of the Ahrimanic current you would draw on the light and darkness to concentrate them and utilize them both. When in balance their potential energy that would otherwise clash is built up and can be channeled to draw far greater power from them than any alone would possess.

Thing to keep in mind is you are seeing things from your own limited perspective on this. If they were truly at war all reality would more or less dissolve into entropy and self annihilation more or less instantaneously. These powers have many manifestations and on infinite levels and while no one can perceive them all it can be seen that their clashes produce other forces that keep the balance and while sentient or personified manifestations of the forces might wage war with each other the forces they are born from are more involved in an intricate dance where their manifestations both create and destroy. Keep in mind also much of these wars and clashes are filtered through human perception and cultural bias and humans especially in recent years are still on a collective scale on a low level of consciousness with in general crude interpretations so much is filtered through those lenses until you learn to break them.

Even when it comes to beings of these elements they are not complete beings no more than a servitor is a complete being. They do not have fully formed souls like humanity and some other species do but are sentient manifestations of only a few set forces instead of the whole spectrum. While they can of course evolve and in time become complete beings by time they become that we are still likely working not with that finished product but the personified force which when our power and authority is realized they have to abide by the rules we set down and they agree to follow or they just don’t get worked with and that means they don’t get paid pure and simple so there is a business aspect to them.


#14

Yea, can’t shed the concept of that / that place where every thing is GOOD. But still even those who bring in both aspect do it where they can wield the power of darkness, instead of being subject to it’s power. Avoiding anything bad is THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL instinct present even In single cells !!! Recently found out that Shiva ( ALso associated with the Archetype of FIRE of any kind ) is one of the Most malefic entity and a large part of suffering is due to him. Guess the last principle of hermetics will need time to be digested properly not only in me but by the Collective also.

Edit : Have to mention, it was an awesome reply. :+1:


#15

Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Shiva effectively the Hindu representation of the source having created the universe or am I getting mixed up? If so he is the perfect example of balancing both sides of a force within and utilizing them both. It should also be noted that such representations of the source in gods tend to be both beneficial and malevolent as it can be seen in a sense that they are embodied in everything and so love everything equally from the worst plagues to the most ‘righteous’ of people because they are within everything and their favor changes with a whim.

In essence if that is the case it is like Shiva you try to become by balancing opposite forces and making them complementary but what you do with them is for you to decide. The best way to start making sense of it is to balance and wield the powers of conflicting but more neutral powers as you see them like fire and water, earth and air, and once you got the elements down move up from there.


#16

That’s Brahma (if my memory from 8th grade serves me well).
Vishnu is the sustainer
Shiva is the destroyer


#17

Yeah I am not too overly familiar with them all as of the moment.


#18

I see them as how the eternal moment stretches. Relativity. Personifies and quantifies perception of time just like there’s the perception of notes in music. There’s the attack, the sustain, and the decay. All can be modified and influenced


#19

Nah, there is Maha-Rudra/Shiva who represents in Hermetic language/Franz Bardon’s 3rd book First 3 of the The letter primordial letters ( A, M and forgot the last one ), He is the one which represents Primordial fire. Same as in Norse mythology which states that at first there was water and fire , From that everything came. This mythology is repeated in almost every culture. Then there is 11 Rudras/Shivas who are God, laws of nature of of Malkuth/Midgard/Muladhara - Basically this physical world of ours where Earth element is most essential for life and creation.

As for the Non-dual concept of ParaShiva , the source? Well There Some tradition say it is Sat-chit-Anand. Other will say it is parashiva but they are not the same. As an Analogy Just as if one looks at a torch light it may just seem Light of awareness is flowing out and becoming/creating existence but if one looks a bit deeper one will see many components are needed there to make it happen instead of it just being one unit , ’ The source ’ . So Parashiva is just one unit of it. As it is beyond dual concepts it’s hard to figure out everything in details.

That’s my limited understanding of the whole thing.


#20

Depends what sect of Hinduism you’re from/within, Saivite mostly believe Rudra is Shiva’s destructive aspect, Vishnu his Maintaining aspect, and Brahma the creative.

The whole “everything within Shiva” is best defined in this simple elegant image:

Good description here as well:

Got to love a god who dances! :black_heart: