Immense Difficulty Visualizing


#1

I know this is going to sound ridiculous to most of you but I literally cannot visualize a thing. I cannot even create a simple circle to see in my inner vision. I have tried MANY different exercises for visualization, not just from Koetting either.

If there is anyone who can help me break down this wall I would be extremely grateful.

If you REALLY cannot understand my predicament this article goes in depth about it

http://lesswrong.com/lw/dr/generalizing_from_one_example/


#2

In your situation I would like to suggest two exercises.

Firstly I advise regular seated meditation. The best resource I have come across for this is Shaila Catherine’s “Focused and Fearless” which was recommended to me buy our very own Mode. Even if you think you have a handle on meditation you will probably get something out of this.
The reasoning for this is twofold.
1 - by quieting the chatter in your mind it will allow you to direct your attention to other exercises with greater focus.
2 - as you enter deep states you are likely to experience visions which will give you a basis as to how visualisation could appear.

The second excercise is to take up a visual art such as sketching of life painting. The process involved in copying an image from the environment requires you to internally structure the image in much higher resolution than normal looking around does. By practising this skill you will passively develop the ability to visualise. Once this develops sufficiently you can starting sketching from your mind.

At this point you could move onto more “traditional” visualisation exercises such as holding a fixed image in your mind for a set period of time.

Also if you are able to lucid dream you can do some pretty interesting things to practice visualisation. By creating things using will but become extremely specific about details. It is sometimes possible to mould and shape an objects as it literally appears before you in the dreamscape.


#3

That makes sense, I really am a terrible artist. I can write poetry and make music but anything visual I struggle at. Can’t believe I didn’t make this connection myself. Thank you but I think landscape pictures are too difficult for me, I’ll start somewhere simpler.


#4

I used to carry a sketch book with me and sketch at work, I have a book that is just full of weird shit like coffee cups and fruit to begin with but then onto technical equipment like radiology set ups. It can be hard to pick a subject but if you look around and simply draw the first thing you focus on, even if it tends to seem silly or too complex you will become more discerning. The point isn’t to be doing perfect drawings, its really only to train the internal connection. If you want to get into proper art it is worth looking into some technique to play with. You can learn it naturally but with so many internet resources it really breaks the learning curve to check that shit out.


#5

Same here, yet Im improving after years I can visualize much kore better.

My tip and this exercise is twofold, do it while at bed resting, body kept quiet: visualize the picture of thevface of someone you really like, for this take a picture from Facebook for example.

Even you dont “see” very well her keep on, tray at least half an hour (30 mins). Start repeating her name so you can fix your atention completely on her and dhe becomes your only thought this time.

With sessions youll start having flashes of her, cristal clear.

So you improve visualization. This is one part of the exercise whats the other one? The other one is telepathy, in this state of mind you can send her messages, yet shell catch em better while sleeping. Humans get much more better symbols representing scenes or things, than text (i havent tried numbers)

So try while you consider her to be sleeping and try to send some porn pictures plus some picture of you for some time (20 /30 mins) shell get them and next time you see her, you gotta notice her kinda funny looool (uncle chuckies psyonic supervillain original idea, it works! )


#6
I know this is going to sound ridiculous to most of you but I literally cannot visualize a thing.

its not ridiculous…visualization is a skill that may come easy for some, or even others are way too visual in their nature,but all in all it can be acquired through patience and practice.

The dark gift is different for each of us… Don’t despair and keep practicing, keep creating, just keep doing…but never quit, for thats when the spirit has you whipped.


#7

You may try visualizing a moving scene, I find it easier than holding a single image. I can visualize clouds passing the moon or churning water much easier than I can a #2 pencil. Perhaps because it requires less attention to focus on multiple things constantly changing than it does to hold a solid image for n extended period.

I started out doing that and worked up to simple occult shapes like circles, triangles and then built up to pentagrams and hexagrams.

s Soundwave said meditation will greatly improve visualization and you’ll have visual stimulation the deeper you go into meditation. Many say your supposed to quiet the mind when this occurs but I happen to enjoy the ride so to speak and often just see where my mind takes me. I find that it tells you a lot about what’s on your mind your not consciously thinking about.


#8

This most definitely isn’t ridiculous! I was an art major and I still have to work at it myself, it definitely isn’t the easiest thing in the world.

What has helped me is picking a relatively simple object in my room that i could study in detail (like a candle lighter), and then close my eyes and try to see it all at once, without the image fading in and out. I actually got the idea from the man E.A. interviewed recently (Uncle Chuckie I believe he goes by), many of his ebooks are available for free download, I suggest you look into it! He has a lot of good insight on the subject.


#9

Some great fdbk and support here- I hope all involved may have already found some development in this… just a few thoughts

 I find that the "Video-Screen" that has the created images is different from the "Video-Screen" that pulls up Memory images.. 

and more so the “Video-Screen” that you can View-Through to see (like turning on a TV channel, or suddenly realize you are, and have been, dreaming… the Image-Stream) -each one can transfer to the others, but I find recognizing that they aren’t the same Areas-of-mind or such, helps.

Another- something from Scientology (the one thing I heard that seems to have impact, vs other processes- as this implies somethings)… where one is guided to “try” and visualize something in places around their physical position (ie in front of you, to your L, to your R, behind you… nearer to you- further away)… and where it is difficult to create something, or a foggy-blankness is, or something can be Visualized there but then it distorts or goes weird:
The concept is, that there is something There that is being Visualized there, and secondly being erased… so not only blocking something else, but energy-drain
(and some other things- like the feeling of not wanting to even try to viz in a place “don’t go there”- whatever is there, and associations-memory triggers Trauma-like, so as your mind tries to think of viz in that place it subcon shies away)…

as most viz practice is done straight in front about arms distance, a limited area- let alone in and around (this from older traditions where you “Create” something, and walk around it, and turn in place so as you rotate that “thing” moves Relatively around you… like the LBPR as you turn)

=====
also - in regards to the drawing recommends, the idea of looking through the viewfinder/keyhole (put your fingers-thumb together so you see through a square, held fall enough away -not like binoculars or telescope- but so it highlights a small area… and draw that.
(just harder to write that than to do it, or demo it- just the idea that a small area is delinated, and you can take something in the center and more easily reference the distance to the top-bottom-sides… as just drawing Landscape is difficulty leap as such a large area and getting the proportions (like the draw a face and its all warped- as mind is only seeing a small sq of at a time- vs an “artist” can see and hold then entire scope proportions… at least that’s how I reference it).

Anyways- I think rather than the third (which tests it well) the first and the second combine to Unlock (in myself, as well as with others- not just once, but in greater Lvls over time). I hope that might boost someone (once you are able to directly align your Attn to the Appropriate “Video-Screen”-area of mind where visions arise, not confused where and not obscured- and then link that to Psychic-TV cc :slight_smile: or direct its focus upon where an Entity-spirit is… and something may arise
***
as EA puts it remember if you scry into nothing, you will see nothing. More than just scrying-eyes, you need to have a question (as well as which focal-object using). -when Visions are displaying you might notice a place in your Attn where their are Images moving and showing… and it won’t be in the usual place (if it was, you’d already be able to Viz).


#10

I don’t think visualization is only about “seeing”. You can try focusing on just trying to feel something, such as imaging the weight of an object without having to hold it, or feeling the texture of something without having to touch it. Trying to reproduce a smell, a taste, a sound, etc., I think, are also forms of visualization and may come easier than trying to see things.

I’ve always have been good with visualizations since I was a kid. I think one of the reasons is because I used to read a lot. I would imagine the scenes and characters as I read. One thing I’ve noticed though is if you don’t know what something looks like it will be really hard to imagine. If a book doesn’t have pictures then you have to rely on previous knowledge of things you have seen before to create a idea of what the author is describing. Some thing that I think could help would be to first try and remember the face of a family member, an object in your house or something you see everyday. Another thing you could do is simply look at a picture or object in front, close your eyes then little by little fill in the blanks. First try just focusing seeing the dimensions of the object.

This is just a random theory but I think mental images rely solely on memory and that anything new is simply a re-creation of past experiences. One reason why I can’t create sharper images of some things visual is simply I can’t remember/focus on all details of an object at once. So start extremely easy and small.

Another thing you can try, and this is assuming you dream visually, is to remember a dream (or perhaps a memory). You already have a memory of it all you need to do is recall it in detail. This, I think, is the same thing as visualization. They both require recalling an image.

Barring all of this maybe some people simply don’t think in pictures. Go back to my first suggestion and work on other senses. Instead of picturing an object imagine what if would feel like to hold it, to touch it, or sense its presence if it was near you, thrown at you, or what it would feel like to throw it. Imagine all of this without actually moving.


#11

Avelin- just definition-wise it seems you wrote that Viz is not about seeing, but by the word I think Visualization is Seeing (visual) while Imaging is all the senses (thus Imagination- has image in it, but imago is a full exper)- as even in your post: << I don’t think visualization is only about “seeing”. You can try focusing on just trying to feel something, such as imaging the weight of an object >> thus you begin referring to viz, but then “such as imaging the…”

So, just from my perspective (as Humpty-Dumpty “said” in Thru-the-Looking-Glass… ‘its all about who is to be the master, words or us; words mean what we want them to mean…’ although we have to train them.) -it seems other sensory-modes are brought up in writings which can confuse context, if not explicit. The key being if one wants to see, that is visual, but the real issue you might be bringing up is- why are people assuming it does need to be visual?

Idea being could someone enter a room, you recog and start speaking with, before seeing them visually? sure- not usually, as so many are visual-emphasis, but if you know the person. (many other “magic” groups write about Seeing spirits but really are implying there aren’t “actual” spirits just mental constructs).

==
The other thought related to:
<< This is just a random theory but I think mental images rely solely on memory and that anything new is simply a re-creation of past experiences. One reason why I can’t create sharper images… >>
May be related, and good insight, but imagining by creating a visualization about what is (may be) inside a room is totally different from looking and seeing what is there (and that seeing is visual)… my exper is (as I wrote in my above comment) that creating an image, and having a vision “arising” (ie look see) are distinct from each other. (when a spirit is seen, it is there and mind receives, vs constructing a picture- just as looking at someone and then recalling up and image are not the same… and then if you “change” that image that is a third type of thought-picture).


a mental tech of using every other sense imaginable (that you can pull up, if say visual-seeing won’t work), can start to solidify and reinforce the others… sort of like feeling the sun/warmth on you, and touching sand with your hands (and feet)- all with your eyes closed… you can click to experiencing Contact (‘substantial contact’) with that even though eyes are closed- and use that to bridge… (?)


#12

You can try to keep a dream journal, and illustrate your dreams upon waking.
The visions transferred to physical media may enhance your visualization technique.


#13

Such a helpful community I really appreciate all of your responses. I do keep a dream journal and reading through it helps me conjure exact images from the dreams, which is refreshing. I am starting to be able to visualize, but it’s still fleeting. I will keep working at it until I master it. Thank you all again!

I’m always open to more suggestions too!


#14

you might be going off of the wrong driver modality.

when magicians talk about visualization what they are really talking about is MODALIZATION. in nlp your representational systems cover vision, audio, and kinesthesia/touch. one of these may be predominant for you. you may not be able to visualize but you may hear very well, or you may have either a well-developed sense of touch or intuition so you ‘feel’ things.

if that is the case, don’t try to strenthen a weakness. work with your strength. you may never learn to ‘see’ spirits but you might ‘hear’ paranormal phenomena or get sense impressions such as temperature changes very strongly. build on that instead. it’s a better use of your time than trying to force imagined visions if you are not good at that.

to find out what your best representational system is, do the following quiz:

when you recall a time you were immensely drawn to someone, what was the very first thing that attracted you to them? was it:
a. the way they looked
b. something they said to you or that you heard
c. the way they touched you or something you felt

when you recall a particularly wonderful holiday you had, what’s the very first experience you remember? was it:
a. the way the place looked
b. the different way it sounded to you
c. the feeling you got about holidaying there

when you drive, how do you navigate?
a. i look at road signs or follow a map of the area
b. i listen for familiar sounds that point me in the right direction
c. i get a gut feeling or sense of where i am

when i play my favourite sport, i particularly enjoy:
a. how i look playing at it
b. the sound of the game, such as the thwack of the ball
c. the feel of the game, the grip of the club or the sense of motion

when i get a task at work, it is easier to understand and carry out if:
a. it is written or i have a plan
b. it is explained to me
c. i get a sense of purpose, clarity from it

when my problems get me down, i find it helps to:
a. write them down so i can see them clearly
b. talk or listen to another until my problems sound easier to hear
c. sort them out inside my head until they make sens

i find it easier to be with my friends if:
a. they communicate using ‘to the point’ statements
b. they interact with me through easy to hear and varying speech
c. i get a feeling that they

know where i am coming from when i make decisions it helps to:
a. picture the possible choices in my mind’s eye
b. hear both sides of a dialogue within my mind
c. sense how i would feel if either choice came to pass

which group do i tend to favour:
a. photography, painting, reading, drawing, films
b. music, the sound of the sea, the wind, chimes, concerts
c. ball games, massage, touching, craft work, reflection

during sex, i like to:
a. look at what is going on
b. hear my lover
c. feel every sensation

when i buy an article of clothing, after first seeing it the very next thing i do is:
a. take another look at it or picture myself wearing it
b. listen closely to the sales assistant or have a conversation with myself giving the pros and cons of buying it
c. get a feeling about it and/or touch it to know if it’s something i’d enjoy wearing

on the occasions when i think of a former lover or special person, the very first thing i do is:
a. see the person in my mind’s eye
b. hear his or her voice in my mind
c. get a certain feeling about the person

at a gym, my experience of satisfaction comes first from:
a. seeing myself in the mirror getting better
b. hearing myself or others say how good i’m looking
c. feeling my body get stronger and sensing it’s more in shape

when i have occasion to use mathematics, i verify the answer by:
a. looking at the numbers to see if they look correct
b. counting the numbers in my head
c. using my fingers to get a sense of correctness

when i spell, i verify accuracy by:
a. looking at the word in my mind’s eye to see if it looks the way that word should
b. saying the word out loud or hearing it in my mind
c. getting a feeling about the way the word is spelt

the subject i enjoyed the most in school came about primarily as a result of:
a. the way it looked on the board or in books
b. the sound of the subject as it was taught to me
c. my sense of interest as i learned more about it

when i love someone, i get an immediate experience of:
a. the way we look together through the eyes of love
b. the sound of telling him or her or being told, “i love you”
c. a feeling or sense of warmth toward that person

when i take a dislike to someone, i get an immediate experience of distaste:
a. when i see them approach
b. when they begin talking to me
c. when i sense they’re nearby

at the beach, the very first thing that makes me glad to be there is:
a. the look of the sand, the smiling sun, and the ice-blue water
b. the sound of the waves, the laughing wind, and distant whispers
c. the feel of the sand, the salt air on my lips and the joy of serenity

having a conversation at a party, my whole frame of experience will change if:
a. the lights get brighter or dimmer
b. the music changes pace
c. the room temperature changes

i know my career is taking a turn for the better when:
a. i see myself moving into a more private office
b. i hear the managing director say, “you’re really going to go places.”
c. i feel satisfaction in getting a promotion.

before going to sleep at night, it’s important that:
a. the room is nearly dark or pleasantly shaded
b. the room is hushed or muted with pleasing background quiet
c. the bed feels very comfortable

in the morning, i especially enjoy awakening to:
a. either the sun streaming in or an overcast day
b. the sound of a lively wind or rain pelting the windows
c. a warm duvet or flannel sheets

when i experience anxiety, the very first thing that happens is:
a. the world takes on a different appearance in some way
b. sounds begin to bother me
c. my sense of ease begins to alter

when i’m very happy, my world:
a. takes on a definite and wonderful shine
b. resonates with total harmony
c. fits perfectly within the space of my life

i get along better with people who:
a. relate to the world through the way it looks
b. relate to the world through the way it sounds
c. relate to the world through the way it maes them feel

when i get totally motivated the first thing that happens is:
a. i see things from a new and resourceful perspective
b. i tell myself how this state is going to create new possibilities
c. i can actually feel myself getting psyched up

when someone tells me “i love you” my first experience is:
a. an image of the person loving me, or us together
b. a dialogue within my soul saying, “this is wonderful”
c. a feeling of pleasurable contentment

death, for me is probably:
a. to see no more, or to see in a totally new way
b. to hear no more, or to hear in a totally new way
c. to feel no more, or to feel in a totally new way

now add up the three separate scores of a’s, b’s and c’s. the letter with the highest number indicates that this is probably your primary representational system. mostly a’s means you are visual and you should work on your visualization. mostly b’s means you are auditory and should work on hearing spirits as opposed to seeing them. translate the visual exercises into audio ones. mostly c’s means you are kinesthetic and will rely on touch, intuition, and feeling to do spirit work instead of sight. translate the exercises over to feeling things and using your intuition or changes in your solar plexus to contact spirit forces.

find your driver modality and develop that. don’t try to work with visualization just because it works for someone else. some witches have been BLIND but that didn’t stop them, they had other senses to work with. work with YOUR strengths, not against them.

something to think about


#15

First off you must understand it is hard to visualize something we have not recently observed. For instance, try and visualize the face of your first grade teacher. Most can remember minor details such as gender, age, hair-color ect. But actually making up the complexity of a face we have not seen in many years can be difficult. There is too much doubt on details and doubt clouds the imagination.

Now, take a glass of water and fill it up to your desired level. Set if on a table in front of you and inventory every detail of it in your mind. The shape, the color, the dimensions, the position in the room, the amount of water, every little detail you mind can think of.

Once you have studied it close your eyes, reach out and take a drink. After you have taken a drink try to set the water down in the exact same position and placement as it was before. Repeat this exercise until the water in the glass is gone. This will ignite all of your senses working at once.

What you will begin to see is literally your arm reaching out and grabbing the glass. After a few days this image will become clearer and clearer. Once you have mastered this them PM me if you want some more difficult exercises.


#16

[quote=“MichaelSmith, post:1, topic:1600”]I know this is going to sound ridiculous to most of you but I literally cannot visualize a thing. I cannot even create a simple circle to see in my inner vision. I have tried MANY different exercises for visualization, not just from Koetting either.

If there is anyone who can help me break down this wall I would be extremely grateful.

If you REALLY cannot understand my predicament this article goes in depth about it

http://lesswrong.com/lw/dr/generalizing_from_one_example/[/quote]

This is so fascinating! I Don’t understand your thought process at all if you can’t visualize… would that mean, you can’t describe how something looks, because you can’t see it in your mind? Probably isn’t like that but it just sounds like it to me.

We must be having so different kind of stuff going on our heads, while you cannot visualize, and i think in images/kind of can’t stop visualizing.

But all that comes to my mind is, try to remember how something looks like? or lets think of something new… Watch a music video from youtube, and lets say try to remember how the guitarist’s guitar looked like, and then try to think how it would look in different colours.

That’s just a silly idea of mine, but at least i tried to help :smiley:


#17
I know it has only been a brief time, but I wonder of any that read this that have had this difficulty, if any clicked?  (like the good concepts in the above prior to posts).  

just curious (some ideas sound good, but in application… and the issue is, what is the purpose you are seeking with this Viz skill? why want it? -thereby, is it the best means to achieve?
-end-result may affect the how devel an ability… (let alone if that is the right goal/skill)

   Most of these seem to either be about "memory recall" visuals, or say forget about it  (and as Black Flame wrote, forget about it  ~ie some aren't visual, implies we don't visualize constantly as part of orienting, reaching for things)--    The question is, is this Vision skill related to memory&recombining?

** - I would frame the above two posts (PHORBABOR and Black Flame) as useful if one wanted to re-create from a memory (as above explicitly mentions it being from a memory), while SEEing let alone experiencing an Entity is not related to that (as I understand it).
<Many other systems/writers speak about creating AsIf you saw a Spirit, as most “magic” actually don’t involve Evoking, just mental-state &asif, if it is there, the question is eyes open? receiving vs create>

As PHORBABOR put it above, " it is hard to visualize something we have not recently observed. For instance, try and visualize the face of your first grade teacher"   

True- and yet if that first-grade teacher was to walk into the room you were in, or you saw them on a TV screen (or in your mind)- then you’d see them [may or may not recognize… and may or may not have your ‘Eyes’ closed- which is the issue… but when a Vision/Imagination arises it floats up and through, usually the speed of its movement is the tricky part… it isn’t the same as a thought of “what did it look like?”

  I relate to the prior msg about how understanding how another person "views" the world, we try to relate how we do (either we assume they "see" things the same, or else if we realize they have a 'different perspective' on things--- like a person that hears the InnerVoice always jabbering in their Mind, and another says they can't _hallucinate_ auditorily... both valid, but different, how many differences

#18

Hmm, Taokua did i get this right - You think it would not train he’s visualization if he is recalling it from memory? I Have no problem either creating stuff with my mind, or recalling it from memory - but what i suggested was to get that memory, and then start to modify it which i think would train the visualization skills. My mind does this automatically, creates all kind of stuff and pops up memories, and distorts their imagery and such.

I think even visualizing peoples that you have not seen for many years is easy, sure it depends on how many times you saw them etc. But yeah, i’m not sure did i get your point, or can i help in this problem - but it sounds interesting.


#19

Hello Black Flame- I think I get what you’re saying, actually what I was thinking was there are 3 different/distinct processes…

visual-memory (and all other senses- in memory-recall),

create-modify or just “dream up” visual (and all other sense- in “imagining”),

and thirdly Vision (which is where an image/sensory arises in mind, whether a Symbol in your Mind, or a directly perceived something- whether Skried Distantly or Locally, thus RemoteView, or Entity/Spirit present, or seeing some Msg to decode).

Often those are combined- and whether developing one helps develop another, is a good issue to look at(or if all have these “sensory channels” but may have them Blocked-obstructed in some way); while if one doesn’t receive/sense in that third way above… either, or a combo, of the first two is substituted…

as you end with:

“I think even visualizing peoples that you have not seen for many years…” < <
If you mention that in ref to how I lmention that above, you might now see how recalling someone (first pt above) isn’t quite the same as now SEEing them (third pt above) -either RemView/scrying, or clairvoy, or however term it…

-in prior posts I've described this, my viewpt/metaphor, of recognizing and activating a "different video screen" in the mind (again "Video" not just visual, all senses, but in terms of where to SEE)...  they all seem to be in the same "place in the Mind"... and once activated its hard to even distinguish.. they're just different, but become no-big deal..    (I don't mean to imply I'm expert at these, nor that I don't have obstruction/blocks to my Mind-perception, but since I've made this distinction I've focused more specifically on that being the issue I sense moreprogress inmyself)

As someone who appears to view things like I do, in terms of vizualizing, might the above click better? (I know I still haven’t found the best way to write my concept in this… still seeking the best way to describe it)- thx for anyFdbk

luck in your seeking

[ added later: a thought I had re directly vs indirectly perceiving, above not to imply that one can’t/doesn’t perceive “psychically” etc via either of first or second… in the same way one could “sense” a Spirit in the Triangle, or who Wandered into your Room- but you don’t believe you can directly become aware of your sensing ie SEE… so you try to draw while describing to yourself, like this? sortof… um like that? no, that doesn’t feel correct… more like this sortof, maybe more… etc.
Implying there is a Sensory-Image (visual-ized as well as perceived) but one isn’t aware of it, thus it is Blocked… usually one is trying to SEE it on one of the first or second type of Mental-Areas… while it isn’t being seen there, it is being seen now by the mind but on a different/third type of MindArea… so looking in the wrong place, and yet Subcon seeing it… so the conscious mind is getting Warm-Cold signals from the SubconsciousMind that just knows directly. ]

 Further some of the "weird -psychic" distortions are a matter of a blending of different senses vs having each in their own area... and the fatigue that results is like trying to incorporate expanded input (like usually dealing with a few different "sensory mediums" and suddenly having to follow many times more "sensory channels" and jumping Attention back and forth and getting distracted (the walking and chewing gum at the same time.. once know how to drive, easy to do while talking, while learning- espec if Mind hasn't expanded to have extra capacity, then overload/overwhelm, and miss things..  
    trees in forest, signal lost in the noise

#20

I don’t know the best way to write my concept either, and english is not my native language. But i guess people are different, in my case those all ways of visualization/video/sound in the mind are somehow mixed in some sort of way - i was fascinated my he’s problem because it seems like he’s mind is too silent and mine is too loud with all the noise/video/image - we would need to find a middle path for both of us here :smiley: Where we can visual in all the ways, but we can also control it “perfectly”

As i read the previous page more carefully, there is very good suggestions already for MichaelSmith - i guess he will get he’s visualization skill in condition soon.

Btw, i don’t think visualization requires closed eyes - if someone thought that, if you want to visualize something in your apartment - i would go for open eyes, well you can do it with closed eyes too but then you have to “visualize the apartment/house/room your at too” if you know what i mean :smiley: