I cant get my self to buy into the idea we are all 'one'

im convinced those that say this havent really spent the time to conceptualize it. what we know to exist is because it is more than one thing. yes we are connected to a tiny fraction of what exists in the whole but we could never expect to have a connection to everything. further more code involves 1s and 0s and to say we are all one would be to say we exist in reality as just a 0, which would mean there would be nothing at all for us to experience, rather i believe existence is based around the fact we became all seperate and continue to expand into even more 1s and 0s and to be only one at the base of reality we would not exist at all because one thing could not expand the way it does if it werent for the cause and effect of another :seperate: thing. in order for light to exist there must be darkness hence nothing would ever exist if it was just one thing at the base. i truely do not believe that we are one consciousness how can that make sense? consciousness came about because there was more than one, what would something that is only one thing even be? you cant even break an atom down to one thing it would have to have been the smallest thing ever to exist. i do not understand how someone can possibly believe we are all one when it takes 2 things to create a contrast to even be anything at all. to me it feels like that thought also pertains to people who think the world is a reflection of their own consciousness which kinda sounds like they are saying the world revolves around them when there in reality exists many consciousnesses that directly or indirectly effect a small portion of other consciousnesses but certainly not every conciousness out there.

That makes no sense. How can consciousness arise because there is more than one of something? Consciousness came first.

This is incorrect. A hologram contains the whole, no matter how many pieces it is split into. It’s the same with consciousness.

Yes, they’re called quarks. Quarks are the smallest units of matter. Beyond them, you begin to get into the realm of quantum particles that blink in and out of existence and other funky stuff.

This is only true at the physical level of reality. When you move beyond the physical, duality falls apart.

No. Every consciousness on earth is the same consciousness. Each part contains the whole. It’s a holographic universe. Separation is an illusion created by the meat and electricity that power your physical vessel in order to make survival at the physical level possible.

All is Mind.

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a hologram requires the interference of two seperate wavefronts reflecting off of a physical medium which would mean : light would have to exist coming from 2 seperate sources and light is made up of many tiny particles called photons(meaning alot more than one thing). also a physical medium would have to exist which would entail more particles so a hologram couldnt exist if only one thing existed. as far as deconstructing an atom, first we believed that was the smallest thing in the world, then we discovered electrons, now we are at quarks, and im sure it breaks down even smaller than that, maybee infinitely, so to think quarks is where it ends is to think we even have the ability as humans to percieve things outside of light which we do not. id be hesitant to think quarks are as small as it gets. lastly conciousness is a physical process caused by electromagnetic energy in the brain, the earth itself existed before conciousness and conciousness requires the processing of information to exist. the more information a brain processes the more conscious it is considered…so if this is what we have proven to be true more than one thing has to exist in order to create conciousness and the belief of our base being one conciousness and a hologram does not make sense…

for conciousness to exist you need more than one thing, if at the base there was only one thing that would mean there is nothing to percieve itself and no information for it to process which would mean there would be no energy generated it just doesnt make sense…

No, it’s not. Your ego, personality and sense of self is, but your consciousness is not limited to the brain. The experiments at Duke University proved this.

I think you are confusing physical phenomena for non-physical phenomena. The hologram is an analogy, it’s not literal.

No, it didn’t. It existed before humans, but not before consciousness itself.

Again, no, it does not. You are mixing up physical phenomena with non-physical phenomena. There have been plenty of scientific experiments performed in labs that prove consciousness transcends the physical brain.

Again, you are mixing up terminology. The processing of information does not denote consciousness. If it did, then every home computer would be considered to have consciousness, which obviously they do not.

This has certainly not been proven to be true in any way.

Again, it does not. You are confusing the term consciousness with the word conscious. They are not the same thing.

That doesn’t make any logical sense. the Source Consciousness created the physical universe in order to learn about itself.

I think you are trying to equate biological reductionism to spiritual concepts and it just doesn’t work. If you do a bit of research, you can absolutely find laboratory examples of consciousness transcending the physical brain, everything from visualization healing terminal disease to the ability to affect a random number generator retroactively through time.

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how can we be one if the illusion of seperateness is generated by ‘meat and electricity’ wouldnt that mean we have to each exist as meat and electricity(which is more than one thing) in order to then form an ‘illusion’ of seperateness?

could not find any source material that would suggest Duke University experiments proved this. looking into this quite deeply it is apparent they are still in the process of studying conciousness, with no real understanding of certain phenomena relating to conciousness, nor anything mentioned about a ‘one’ conciousness.

believing that we are all the same conciousness is nothing more than a belief system, there is no evidence in existence that would suggest this is true, infact it was modern religion that first claimed this idea and if ive learned anything modern religion is backwards and ment to constrict personal choice and questioning. if the universe is a hologram as you stated itbwould require more than just conciousness to exist as ive already stated, if seperation is an illusion then how is this illusion created with only one thing in existence? an illusion is the misinterpretation of a ‘real’ stimuli. stimuli is a thing or event that evokes a specific functional reaction in an organ or tissue which would suggest for an illusion to exist first there would need to be a ‘real’ stimuli and secondly an organ or tissue that can respond to the stimuli, there for we cannot be one conciousness and that is all, we at least need to be more than that for an illusion to exist.

this makes no sense, you contradict yourself… if you are using a hologram as an anology how does it pertain to consiousness at all if it requires more than one conciousness to exist? the idea that it contains all information within one part would still suggest that the one conciousness you speak of contains all of what we experience which would mean it is more than one thing and very seperate.

how do you know this, this is beyond human conceptualization

i believe conciousness transends the physical brain, thoughts are frequency and this explains how people can read your mind/ why we can astral travel, but this is by no means any proof of the half baked belief that we are all one conciousness, this comes from modern interpretations of religion and people who wanna sound woke. also i am not mixing up physical and non physical terminology i am critically thinking and trying hard to wrap my mind around how someone can believe base reality to be a single conciousness, it suggests your ego is so large that you consider yourself everything that is and ever will be. humans cannot possibly understand what reality is or how it started. physical processes and non physical energy exists in our perception but i like to keep my mind free of beliefs that originate from modern religion and contradicts itself over and over. all your points are contradicting and have done nothing to help me wrap my head around that concept, i believe in seperateness because it is what i for sure know to be true, even if beyond our human conception exists a ‘one’ all that can be percieved is a seperateness which allows me to harness the power of seperate energies and until the idea of one conciousness actually makes sense and isnt just a baseless belief system i will continue to believe the reason conciousness exists is because seperateness. the reason it can transcend the brain is because it generates energy which can exist outside the physical body and heal and effect things outside of it. our conciousness can read others minds and get messages from other conciousnesses which in a dimension that we cannot perceive must exist a physical body. and finally the reason home computers are not ‘conscious’ is because although they process information there is no realization of self which would simply require them to generate electromagnetic energy while organizing information and im pretty sure that exists already. lastly the illusion you speak of i figure comes from the fact our brains filter out a lot of what we perceive, leaving us blind to other dimensions where in watchers and other dieties exist, we can work on perceiving parts of these dimensions and i think those entities have a greater capacity to see our dimension then we can see theres but we at the base are all seperate beings with seperate conciousness.

The idea that all is one, has it’s roots in another idea that all existence is conscious, including things like rocks, plants, air, metals, etc. Consciousness as an inherent property of matter. The way you describe consciousness sounds more like perspective, saying you believe consciousness starts at 2 instead of 1 because 1 thing can’t be aware of itself. The problem with that idea is that most forms of recorded consciousness aren’t aware of themselves, they just exist(speaking about lifeforms). When you view consciousness as just perspective and awareness, then it makes sense to believe that you would need something else to be consciousness.

That is still just a human view of consciousness though, so that’s not really any less egoistic than saying you are everything because all is one. You still think consciousness has to begin in a way you understand ( not trying to attack you, just pointing it out). Ego isn’t necessarily a bad thing btw.

You could also say that consciousness is life, and everything is alive to some greater or lesser extent. We can’t actually say we can measure this in physical reality, but we can use this idea to interact with reality in a different way.

[Mod hat on]

Well hey, that’s unnecessary. I realise this is criticizing an idea not any persons, and that’s fine, but please keep it respectful to keep this post open per the rules and don’t let it get any more .

Bear in mind, we do not normally entertain skeptics here. this forum is specifically to discuss our magick not defend it to skeptics. You have some great responses here so I’ll leave this where I’d normally remove it, but consider this your only warning, you are expected to debate in an adult and intelligent manner, not fling verbal poo.

Please do read the rules if you haven’t.

Also as a tip: walls of text tend to get skipped, you might like to think about breaking that up with whitespace.

[Mod hat off]

Because you’re trying to rationalize a thing with limited equipment that does not have the capacity to perform this action. This belief comes from experience, and it cannot be explained. Unless you go and have that experience, no one can convince you and in no way should you believe them. But the experience is not gained through the conscious mind, but the subconscious. So you can’t think your way through it.

Basically, believe nothing you hear, only what you experience. Other people can give you ideas for your own inner work, but in the end it’s all very personal and only you can choose what you want to believe.

What other people want to believe is not really your business, and your critique of then is about you and nothing to to with them either.

We all have to make up your own minds.

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That is why it is important to engage in practice. All esoteric traditions, there are practices that help individuals grasp the concept of oneness. Understanding it intellectually is just a game; one must engage in practical application.

The concept of oneness is very familiar to anyone who practices and studies Taoism.

And, do you know what? The highest purpose of the Golden Dawn system is alchemy. But, what is alchemy? It is the process of combining separate parts into one unified whole.

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Have a read about Carl Jung’s collective consciousness and Freud’s Totem and Taboo.
Also all old religious books from various religions have same symbols and legends.
Some symbols that appear in dreams are common for everyone no matter where they live.
I would like to Narcissistically believe that I am unique and separate from the others but unfortunately the evidence points otherwise.

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Sorry, but this is completely wrong. It is not a “modern interpretation of religion.” It is a very old concept, and is the basis of Hermeticism, which is over a thousand years old.

raziel came and visited, after speaking for awhile i got a strange message through my phone that i think relates to this conversation…any thoughts?

also i do think that the idea of Oneness is grossly misinterpreted

Buddha did not advocate the belief in an absolute Oneness. in fact, he cautioned against embracing extreme views, as indicated in Samyutta Nikaya 12.48. while he didn’t explicitly explain the reasons to the brahman, other passages shed light on his perspective.

in Anguttara Nikaya 10.29, the Buddha mentions that achieving a state of nondual consciousness, where everything seems unified with one’s awareness, does not bring an end to suffering. this state, like other conditioned experiences, needs to be approached with detachment and ultimately relinquished.

furthermore, in Samyutta Nikaya 35.80, the Buddha emphasizes the importance of perceiving all things as separate and not-self in order to dispel ignorance and cultivate clear understanding. viewing everything as One would hinder the path to enlightenment.

we are all one consciousness, and it is the mind-ego that acts as a filter, creating the idea of separation, a separate self.

With that said, we are not all equal. Most humans are NPCs, barely conscious. So even tho we may all be of the same source, we are NOT on the same energy levels. Some people are really high, some are really low.

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Like attracts like. You have called for this information and the universe responds with what you want to hear because that is your design. This is different than synchronicity because there’s too much ego in it, which fits the story so far. Whether it’s valid UPG, or you are reading into it whatever you want, is a different question, but I’m not surprised as this is my primary method of drawing the data I need to me.

You are a creator being same as the rest of us, if you create your reality such that you will never be able to achieve Samadhi, and you are always alone and separate, than that it’s yours to experience.

All experiences are valid and part of the point of the universe, which is only to experience, imo, so I see no problem with this. I also don’t believe in The Truth™ that is the same for everyone.

Yes we got that. We have explained our views, and it seems we must agree to disagree. For the reasons just stated. That’s fine, isn’t it?

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it came off as an argument but i was honestly just hoping to see if there was anyone out there who could sway my mind on oneness because i really want to believe(it is lonely out here), but my mind still needs to experience more proof

i also am constantly reminded that i have a long way to go before dissolving my ego and relinquishing my belief systems, i know ego is not inherently bad but mine is quite mean to myself and effects my ability to see things from all perspectives, which could keep me seperate from oneness. i still havent gotten to that point with meditation but im always trying…

ugh sorry to post public on this but the interface has me super confused i cant figure out how to dm you, i was hoping i could delete my account?

You cannot delete your account. Only a moderator can do so, and only if your account has less than 5 posts. Otherwise the system will not allow it. Would you like your account closed?

The idea of oneness is indeed not new. I would say the idea is probably even very primal to our species. The ego and a sense of indiviualism are a vessel and a tool for practical existence and serves it’s purpose.

If spiritual oneness is hard to grasp, maybe start with the realization that everything, on this planet at least, is physically made up of roughly the same building blocks. Probably from the same source if you go back far enough.

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