i have been wearing out this search for weeks trying to find something which will show what form a Pact will take, roughly. I need to see some examples as pretty clearly I am crappy at writing contracts, as show by my renter selling my 80k property behind my back without needing title and my having no recourse to prevent it. if that was a human- I can only imagine what can happen with a far more intelligent being.
Are there any ‘Examples’ of what pacts look like, and or “things to look out for” so I can write one up with a bit of compitance and confidence ?
I want to get a Pact with Belial started in the 18th; but without a good idea what it looks and sounds like; I will have to wait until i can find something Reliable- if such a thing exists.
Thankx
This oughta sound about
dumb, but the one thing I am finding in everything i have read abut “pacts” is the constant “I renounce God jesus, christianity” blah blah. This is coming from what I call “angry high school wouldbe satainsts”, but still has been universal in everything I have read.
[ I could never be a ‘satanist’ due to the monoptical lack of Intellect . How does one justify “give me the solar system but I renounce Neptune” ]
Belial knows me well enough to know that- i am a “PanPolyMultiverse” and all that is within it and without; so renouncing one infintesimally tiny “asstroid” of power manifestation, as if by doing so becomes an active act of increasing Power and Virtue; makes a Road Runner cartoon of an Act which I consider far for important an power producing than the silly act of renunciation would provide
I understand a respect ‘renunciation’ in certain areas, but only in that whatever “discapline” is being renounced, in forever to be made ‘a tool’ rather than being ‘its tool’.
i have the most difficult time respecting ‘satanistas’- wish there was a better division line between Demonolatry- and ‘satanism’; make communication so dificult at times.
[quote=“Frater Dark Matter, post:1, topic:5046”]i have been wearing out this search for weeks trying to find something which will show what form a Pact will take, roughly. I need to see some examples as pretty clearly I am crappy at writing contracts, as show by my renter selling my 80k property behind my back without needing title and my having no recourse to prevent it. if that was a human- I can only imagine what can happen with a far more intelligent being.
Are there any ‘Examples’ of what pacts look like, and or “things to look out for” so I can write one up with a bit of compitance and confidence ?
I want to get a Pact with Belial started in the 18th; but without a good idea what it looks and sounds like; I will have to wait until i can find something Reliable- if such a thing exists.
Thankx[/quote]
I put most of what I know about pacts in this post - remember most pacts go both ways, that spirit IS likely to ask you to do things for them, and unless you get boundaries in that reflect who you are, and not who you wish to be (or think you “should” be) you may be confronted with requests you’re just not capable of fulfilling.
On the other hand a solid pact that recognises both your weaknesses and your strengths is a glorious thing for both human & spirit, and means you can both get the most out of this when they request something, whilst also having a lot of fun! 
Remember as well spirits don’t judge us by the same standards as potential bosses scanning a CV or whatever, so put all your nastiest traits in there and don’t try to pretend you have strengths where you don’t, this is the one occasion to bare your soul and let them see you in all your truthful crazy glory.
[quote=“Lady Eva, post:3, topic:5046”]I put most of what I know about pacts in this post - remember most pacts go both ways, that spirit IS likely to ask you to do things for them, and unless you get boundaries in that reflect who you are, and not who you wish to be (or think you “should” be) you may be confronted with requests you’re just not capable of fulfilling.
On the other hand a solid pact that recognises both your weaknesses and your strengths is a glorious thing for both human & spirit, and means you can both get the most out of this when they request something, whilst also having a lot of fun!
Remember as well spirits don’t judge us by the same standards as potential bosses scanning a CV or whatever, so put all your nastiest traits in there and don’t try to pretend you have strengths where you don’t, this is the one occasion to bare your soul and let them see you in all your truthful crazy glory.[/quote]
Well said.
I myself would be really paranoid about getting into a pact. If I did do it it would take me a LONG time to compose it and then I’d have it proof read anonymously by several online think tank forums to make suggestions/comments on what I should change or be concerned about possible loopholes the spirit could exploit. In the end it would be a well crafted well thought out pact with the weight and wording of a binding legal contract document. Any books or papers on writing pacts would be great too as reference material for my pact.
About my Pact, do I have to burn it after the time it is up? if so, can i keep a duplicate?
If I do not see Belial when I begin it, can i use my pendulum to see if he accepts it?
Does the type of paper matter?
Just about ready to begin writing.
[quote=“Frater Dark Matter, post:1, topic:5046”]i have been wearing out this search for weeks trying to find something which will show what form a Pact will take, roughly. I need to see some examples as pretty clearly I am crappy at writing contracts, as show by my renter selling my 80k property behind my back without needing title and my having no recourse to prevent it. if that was a human- I can only imagine what can happen with a far more intelligent being.
Are there any ‘Examples’ of what pacts look like, and or “things to look out for” so I can write one up with a bit of compitance and confidence ?
I want to get a Pact with Belial started in the 18th; but without a good idea what it looks and sounds like; I will have to wait until i can find something Reliable- if such a thing exists.
Thankx[/quote]
Can you actually hear spirits?
Pacts are meant to be agreements between the spirit and human. If you can’t directly communicate with them, they can’t put in their input. It’s a shady way of making a pact. You’d be better off just attempting to use them in a case by case basis before making a binding agreement with something you can’t really have a conversation with.
Actually- I can hear them from time to time. I admit that with Belial- I have alot higher demand for evidence as it were. however- I now have it all written up which was done during our meeting where I kinow he was present. t-3 days until enactment and i have it sitting upon my alter waiting for his approval or a mark or something. If I donot get that, then just to be sure, On the night it begins, I will use a pendulum to see if he goes for it or not. He has been pretty damn profound and reliable— and passed testing; so that willbe my last line.In any case- I will vigerously work out my end of the issue, and believing Belial to be a Being of Honor, for he has never shown me otherwise, I will expect him to do as the document decrees. EA says- ‘give them a task’, well he will have 2 lunar cycles to do so.
and to add to the matter, plan to begin working on my OAA. When I work at my 110%- I am rarely ever disappointed with any deific help i ask for. or as somesay to do- command.
[quote=“Euoi, post:6, topic:5046”]Can you actually hear spirits?
Pacts are meant to be agreements between the spirit and human. If you can’t directly communicate with them, they can’t put in their input. It’s a shady way of making a pact. You’d be better off just attempting to use them in a case by case basis before making a binding agreement with something you can’t really have a conversation with.[/quote]
If it’s a short-term pact I think you should keep a duplicate, that way in 4 and 6 months time etc., you’ll be able to look back and see how well the terms were fulfilled.
Any time a spirit agrees to do anything for you, that is a pact. They are bound to perform the service for you – and YOU are bound to let them. All you have to do is verbalize that last part and – presto! - - you’ve got a pact. The formal pact just has more terms and agreements going on.
Whenever I’ve asked particularly powerful or informative spirits what they’d like in return from me, the most I’ve ever been asked for is stuff like, “Keep it to yourself,” or “If anyone asks, say nice things about me.” The only thing demons seem concerned with is advancing consciousness - not just “human” consciousness, but consciousness in general, so the only “service” they’re likely to request will be something along those lines. (Which MIGHT mean that you have to agree to HELP people, or even DO NICE THINGS once in a while, so be prepared.)
Try these also:
[url=http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Grimoire-Infernal-Pacts-Michael/dp/1508716854/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429130908&sr=1-1&keywords=michael+w+ford]http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Grimoire-Infernal-Pacts-Michael/dp/1508716854/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429130908&sr=1-1&keywords=michael+w+ford[/url]
[url=http://www.amazon.com/Pacts-Devil-Chronicle-Blasphemy-Liberation/dp/193515026X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429130997&sr=1-1&keywords=pacts+with+the+devil]http://www.amazon.com/Pacts-Devil-Chronicle-Blasphemy-Liberation/dp/193515026X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429130997&sr=1-1&keywords=pacts+with+the+devil[/url]
Short term Pact, with Long Term Ramifications ! };)>
Will Do !!
If it’s a short-term pact I think you should keep a duplicate, that way in 4 and 6 months time etc., you’ll be able to look back and see how well the terms were fulfilled.[/quote]
you’ve been looking in the wrong places for the information you need. you have to keep it simpler if you want to get to the good stuff.
a pact is a contract. the original term for a contract is pacta sunt servanda (agreement that must be kept/served).
instead of wasting your time looking in magickal grammars for badly-made contracts, look online for legal advice on how to write your own.
a good contract has three parts:
: an offer
: an acceptance
: a consideration.
an offer is what you want to give (to belial in this case). to be valid, your offer must have three things:
: communication
: commitment
: definite terms.
to communicate with belial, you will want to use divination. you want to ask in divination if belial is willing to commit to your contract idea before you write it, and then after again you ask if the contract you have written is satisfactory. you keep rewriting with its input until you get this part right. the rewriting will be mostly your definite terms. you tell belial exactly what you want, and measure out the cost of it.
you will want to negotiate the details of your definite terms with belial in divination very often in order to hammer out all the kinks. understand that if belial refuses your definite terms, the pact is null and void. understand that if an offer has a time limit, it can expire without you having reached an agreement. so work within belial’s willingness and a time limit. you have to keep going and rewriting until belial agrees to commit to what you propose.
when belial gives you a sign that it’ll commit to your definite terms, your offer has been accepted. you’ll probably want to write this down.
the form of a simple pact is as follows:
: name your contract
: name the parties. son of <your mother’s maiden name> and belial hereby agree as follows:’
: write your terms and conditions.
: write your considerations, meaning what you will do for yourself, what you will do for belial, and what you expect belial to do for you.
: write the agreement date and the date you want the contract to be completed.
: create room for your signature and notary block, where you put both your and belial’s signature, which is its sigil.
to get into the right state to do the ritual, you may want to not eat or drink for 3 days if you possibly can. doing that puts you in a state where you are naturally drifting in and out of trance. at that point you can pretty much just do a simple meditation and then do the ritual itself, you will already be in medium trance. in the ritual you want to present the contract to belial formally and ask it to give you an astral signature, which you trace over while in deep trance, automatic writing-style. my suggestion is to use blood for your ink, or india ink with drops of your blood in it. when i did my pact with satan, i drew my blood with a syringe and used the needle as a pen, signing my signature entirely with my blood. either way, write your signature and draw over belial’s sigil with whatever ink you use and there you go, your pact is set.
i hear people saying things like they’d never do a pact. that’s on YOU. a pact with a spirit is really no different than a contract with a human being. you promise to do something, and when the contract is signed you keep your promise. the main difference is that demons know where to find you if you fuck up. xians have you believing that demons are full of lies and waiting to trap you. may i present to you the idea that humans are also full of lies and furthermore excuses? may i also present to you the idea that humans are always trying to get something for nothing? may i go even further to present to you the idea that humans are quick to remember when we are given something and even quicker to forget when we have to give something back? it’s not the demon’s deception that you have to watch out for - more often than not it is your own. that’s the part the xian karcists never got around to telling you. again i repeat, demons know where to find you if you try to fuck them over. as humans, we have a natural tendency to try to fuck others over. demons will repay human dishonesty with spiritual revenge. phony morality is no cover for that truth. and that is where the xian-derived dread of pacts comes from. food for thought.
anyway, that’s the long and short of a pact. it doesn’t have to be long or complicated. each part can be as short as a few sentences. you want to make it as long or as short as it needs to be to be complete.
[quote=“Globalitz, post:10, topic:5046”]Try these also:
grand grimoire[/quote]
that’s not a pact, it’s a promissory note. you want to think carefully before trying to force a spirit to sign a promissory note where it owes you something and gets nothing in return. there’s no such thing as something for nothing, eventually you will pay a price. as far as extorting material goods from lucifer and giving praises to jehovam? can anyone say fool trap? we all know that’s not going to end well for whoever is stupid enough to try that. that note can only turn both spirits against whoever is stupid enough to try it.
that was a good book. chapter 9 gives you a bunch of great information on how a pact works out in actual fact. there’s other good info in the book. keep in mind the long-winded conjurations and whatnot in the last part of the book are just catholic priests using intense concentration on the parts of the mass to get into a flow state so they can conjure spirits. if you understand how to do hypnotic trance or flow, you can pretty much use any focus object and don’t need to memorize all of those long-winded dribbles. the main aim is to concentrate and change your brainwaves any way you can before you call the spirit so you can perceive and communicate with them when they are with you
To give an obvious example FDM, me currently moderating this forum to the best of my abilities, and also giving help whenever possible by sharing experiences and links etc., is a part of my pact with my primary spirit.
There are times like anyone I could easily goof off watching TV or surfing for amusing picture of cats, but my spirits like BALG and they like this forum, and therefore they figure that since I’m online a lot already, and have modded stuff professionally in the past… you get the picture.
Of course if I found it odious and didn’t learn something new each day myself I wouldn’t be up for it, but as it is they’ve perfectly matched my life and interests to something that, I hope, at least helps somewhat towards our shared overall goal of more magicians on the planet, practicing (no matter their path or self-definition) from a place of power and knowledge.
[quote=“the fool, post:12, topic:5046”]you’ve been looking in the wrong places for the information you need. you have to keep it simpler if you want to get to the good stuff.
a pact is a contract. the original term for a contract is pacta sunt servanda (agreement that must be kept/served).
instead of wasting your time looking in magickal grammars for badly-made contracts, look online for legal advice on how to write your own.
a good contract has three parts:
: an offer
: an acceptance
: a consideration.[/quote]
Excellent advice, a lot of spirits seem to think in very legalistic terms (insert joke about lawyers/demons here!) and basic contract law is the simplest legal area, and provides an excellent template for this work.
oyes, I have had all 5 sences worked on, plus afew! Thats the fun of it!!
This was an excellent thread! Thanks!
Found my old post. Bookmarking it for future use.
Super Helpful thank you for the break down