How do you verify what spirits say/show?

New Magician Help & Introductions
1

I’d like to ask experienced Magicians,
of your useful/successful/proven ways, means, tools etc.
to verify what the spirits are saying/appearing.

Having had some Christian education earlier in my life
I’ve been threatened and imprinted that
demonic entities always try to deceive you.

My experience tells me they are not that bad,
but still old belief is very deep routed and
may hinder performance when start working with them
proactively by evocation etc.

So… I thought it’d be great if you would kindly share such information
and it might help other beginners like me too…

2

When you work with a Demon and the Demon Told you that he will accomplish something for you or teach you something for a Specific Purpose, and then in a near Futur that things Happen or the Teaching you receive from it is confirmed Clearly, you will see that they are not Liar or Deceiver.

Use the Physical Plane as a way to get Clear and Accurate Confirmation of what Spirit say to you or of your Ritual succes

3

^ Agreed, results are the best way, that’s why keeping some kind of journal is important. :slight_smile:

1 Like
4

Dear Mephistor, Lady Eva,

I understand that’s when journals comes in very important as well… as per myself, having a lot of split energy, I am learning a lot here …

5

Hey man they are correct and i agrree with them both. And ill just add this when you keep a journal, write down what the demon says after the ritual read over it. It may not make sense at the time you read it, so put it away do something else to clear your head for a few hours. Then come back and reread it all. It should make more sense. I have noticed that for a while after, yiur mind and body had been locked it the TGS for so long that the feeling lingers. Tgis is why it wont make sense til after you reread it. I know my personal rituals last no less than an hour. This is very helpful in many ways.

6

[quote=“MyK, post:1, topic:8176”]I’d like to ask experienced Magicians,
of your useful/successful/proven ways, means, tools etc.
to verify what the spirits are saying/appearing.[/quote]

Here’s a test - any spirit that tries to tell you to WORSHIP it, to perform acts against your most heartfelt beliefs, or that you’re a mere primate while it is a God - those are giveaways that you’re dealing with a jerk.

No spirit I have ever worked with, whatever level of activity or whatever paradigm (and I was hardcore RHP for years) has ever told me that, they ALL encourage growth, taking back power, breaking down illusory restrictions, and while I can say I “worship” (love, adore, make offerings to) a goddess like Hathor for example, this isn’t appeasement, this is like I’d give a human I loved a present or whatever they specifically liked to receive.

Any spirit that tries to convey that you’re a meatsuit and nothing more, is lying to you.

The great con-job of monotheism is to tell people all power and all glory lie outside themselves, and must be worshipped, and, worse, FEARED.

This is like raising people to fear their own skin (or, as many do, their own bodies), it’s obscene and derisory and a massive mockery of all that’s truly Divine.

2 Likes
7

Good point Lady Eva i agree again. As you have said i never had that asked of me either. I see the spirit and magician as equal also. What they help you with though makes you grateful in such a way you want to offer them more for an offering every time you work with them. It truly is amazing the power that can be wielded through such a releationship. Thats what most novices fail to realize its more than just a business contract, its a relationship on so many levels.

8

[quote=“MyK, post:1, topic:8176”]I’d like to ask experienced Magicians,
of your useful/successful/proven ways, means, tools etc.
to verify what the spirits are saying/appearing.

Having had some Christian education earlier in my life
I’ve been threatened and imprinted that
demonic entities always try to deceive you.

My experience tells me they are not that bad,
but still old belief is very deep routed and
may hinder performance when start working with them
proactively by evocation etc.

So… I thought it’d be great if you would kindly share such information
and it might help other beginners like me too…[/quote]

This is a smart question because I have noticed that some people automatically believe spirits simply because they look beautiful or powerful, or sound intelligent or otherwise trustworthy and benevolent. Now you mentioned that you are coming from a Christian background so let me appeal to you on that level of understanding and talk to you in a way that will make sense and have some authority to you.

“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.” - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

So, by this verse it becomes apparent that a person or spirit may appear to be good, in order to deceive you. Therefore you should not automatically trust a spirit.

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” - John 8:44

So here we see that Satan is not only a liar, but the father of lies and there is no truth in him. Think about politicians for example, notice how some of them are experts and making something bad sound good by using clever wording.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.” 1 John 4:1-6

These verses explain that there are basically two different types of spirits, those that are of God and those that are not. Those that are of the truth, and those that are of error. It also explains how to determine which is which by giving you a way to test them. It also mentions something about the spirit of antichrist and I believe the following verse expounds upon that type of spirit a little bit more, observe:

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” 1 John 2:22,23

In this verse you should understand that Christ means Messiah. The idea is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he came to this earth to die on the cross for our sins, he was buried and rose again to life. Even though we are all sinners and the punishment for our sins is death and hell, God loved us so much that he sent his own son to pay that punishment for us. We cannot earn our way into heaven by doing good deeds. The only way we can be saved is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, it’s only by faith. And he gives us the free gift of eternal life. So somebody that denies that Jesus is the Messiah, is antichrist.

“Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?” - 1 Corinthians 10:18-22

This verse is basically pointing out that an idol is nothing, however when you make sacrifices unto an idol, you are actually sacrificing unto a devil. It goes on to say that you cannot be on both sides. Either you are with the devils or you are with the Lord. One or the other, not both. Also another point to add is that when the bible uses the words devils, unclean spirits, deceiving spirit etc. it is referring to what we would normally call a demon.

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.” - 1 Timothy 4:1-5

Now this particular verse gives us an example of a lying spirit and some of the things they might teach such as abstaining from meats for example. Of course this is just one example and there are all kinds of doctrines of devils, or false doctrine. So long story short, it is good to question and test every spirit as opposed to sticking your head in the sand and being purposefully ignorant. I think based on the context of the bible in general, the purpose of these spirits is to lead as many people to hell as possible and prevent them from receiving the free gift of eternal life by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

9

^ I don’t share your belief system at all, but that was a detailed, cohesive. and thoughtful post explaining this from a specific point of view, so thank you for taking the time to share it.

Seeing people bring their best to any thread and not going for group-think is a strength for any community, and a victory for truth.

10

“Show me the evidence”. If a spirit doesn’t give you what they say they will , regardless of what you do for them, they are weak, powerless, pussies. Show me the fucking evidence that they are worth aligning with. I’m not personally interested in “weird coincidences”. If they can’t do things that I can’t do for myself, I’m not saying that they aren’t real. I’m just saying that they are of no interest of me.

11

[quote=“MyK, post:1, topic:8176”]I’d like to ask experienced Magicians,
of your useful/successful/proven ways, means, tools etc.
to verify what the spirits are saying/appearing.

Having had some Christian education earlier in my life
I’ve been threatened and imprinted that
demonic entities always try to deceive you.

My experience tells me they are not that bad,
but still old belief is very deep routed and
may hinder performance when start working with them
proactively by evocation etc.

So… I thought it’d be great if you would kindly share such information
and it might help other beginners like me too…[/quote]

Hope - faith - Trust and most important- Intuition

12

Wow beautifully put… I even opened the bible after few decades to see what they mean in my language.

Reading through, the word ‘deceive’ itself is based on the stand point that
JHWH is the one and the only.

Yes… ‘duh’ question to begin with… if you think about it with some reason and real study.

Bit of excuse … I came out of the Christianity long time ago I realized how
I am just stuck with the face of the word ‘deception.’

My fear is based on the fear that had been planted in me by
Jehovah’s Witness. Almost 30 years ago I gave up thinking things through
and decided to leave any religion and just left it there.

The memory of emotion, this time fear, only kept showing up
the ugly face without any means of tackling so much of materials
(just overwhelming X( )

Thank you for keys.

Eternal life, and consequences of Hell,
those are all threats exploiting our inability
unable to see the nonphysical.

And that is ignoring the fact that some
might not want to live forever.

13

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:6, topic:8176”]Here’s a test - any spirit that tries to tell you to WORSHIP it, to perform acts against your most heartfelt beliefs, or that you’re a mere primate while it is a God - those are giveaways that you’re dealing with a jerk.

No spirit I have ever worked with, whatever level of activity or whatever paradigm (and I was hardcore RHP for years) has ever told me that, they ALL encourage growth, taking back power, breaking down illusory restrictions, and while I can say I “worship” (love, adore, make offerings to) a goddess like Hathor for example, this isn’t appeasement, this is like I’d give a human I loved a present or whatever they specifically liked to receive.

Any spirit that tries to convey that you’re a meatsuit and nothing more, is lying to you.

The great con-job of monotheism is to tell people all power and all glory lie outside themselves, and must be worshipped, and, worse, FEARED.

This is like raising people to fear their own skin (or, as many do, their own bodies), it’s obscene and derisory and a massive mockery of all that’s truly Divine.[/quote]

Lady Eva, I too, think that is really a good point… and encouraging
to hear your experience.

I know there are human beings who tell you to worship them too.
Sometimes they don’t even know they’re demanding you to
worship them. But yes, like you say, their strategy is always
focus on ‘Fear’ within you in order to control.
I found out people out there came up with
a name for it - Moral Harassment.

Dealing with spirits, I am guessing we’d need to deal with them
with our bare heart and I feel Magick really
require you to be strong, autonomous and grow.

When I was with Christians I felt like they’re sucking out
all my creativity. But here with various spirits
it gives me energy to start moving and
clean up mess, take practical means to tackle
issues now I’m facing with hope and finally be creative.

And I really like people here.

14

Oh yes that way they’d have to work hard to proof themselves :slight_smile:
Your point somewhat resonates to something I read in
corporate management books.

15

All the good positive feelings and I really like how you put
them simple and strong.

Grateful of your words :smiley:

16

[quote=“Awalter666, post:5, topic:8176”]write down what the demon says after the ritual read over it.

… Tgis is why it wont make sense til after you reread it. …This is very helpful in many ways.[/quote]

Thank you for the post - it’s so great to know about the real life practice!

BTW when I try to write I feel my logical brain
all of sudden starts working and come back to reality.

Maybe I should write with left hand :slight_smile:

17

In one my first ever physical evocations, the spirit (Beelzebub) looked me up and down without greeting me and proceeded to say: “Why are you wearing that?” in reference to my body.

So, while agreed on the above point, everything is in the phrasing.

18

OR… your just being sensitive. It is a God, while you have human frailty. How is it that you could ascribe human value to something that doesnt experience human existence 24/7. The Gods may be the closest to humanity, but they cannot always be soft (depending how close to them you truly are), as they deal with much harsher realities than you’d be accustomed to. Being a jerk is the last thing on their mind in order of things of importance.

19

Wow beautifully put… I even opened the bible after few decades to see what they mean in my language.

Reading through, the word ‘deceive’ itself is based on the stand point that
JHWH is the one and the only.

Yes… ‘duh’ question to begin with… if you think about it with some reason and real study.

Bit of excuse … I came out of the Christianity long time ago I realized how
I am just stuck with the face of the word ‘deception.’

My fear is based on the fear that had been planted in me by
Jehovah’s Witness. Almost 30 years ago I gave up thinking things through
and decided to leave any religion and just left it there.

The memory of emotion, this time fear, only kept showing up
the ugly face without any means of tackling so much of materials
(just overwhelming X( )

Thank you for keys.

Eternal life, and consequences of Hell,
those are all threats exploiting our inability
unable to see the nonphysical.

And that is ignoring the fact that some
might not want to live forever.[/quote]

I have a Jehovahs Witness background too. While I don’t agree with everything they say, I did learn a lot of good things.

As for trusting spirits, trust is earned.

20

Paulden, Yes I agree I did learn a lot with them too!
If not for them, I wouldn’t have known about the Dead Sea Scrolls nor the Bible had so many versions, or even wouldn’t have opened Bible.
So I don’t really negate my experience with them. But worshiping one
God, I tried, it’s nice in a way, but it looks like more of troubles in the end.

As for trusting spirits, trust is earned.

I like that… Like any kind of relationship, regardless human, animal, spirit,…

When I do rituals… except for when I get very emotional,
it’s hard for me to see/feel anything at worst.

I want to buy EA’s Divination course … I have
a feeling that opens up doors for more convincing experiences.

As I explore this forum and other places I started to realize
practicing Magick is not always about communicating.
I am just starting out with rituals and I now get what you mean
by trust.

Please excuse my comments pulling out ‘duh’ from the mouths of
you seasoned practitioners…