Has anyone here got a proof that the underworld really exists?

if yes, is it really sunless like the myths say?

You’re kidding, right?

The “underworld” isn’t a physical place, so what kind of proof do you think anyone could have?


I don’t really believe in “underworlds” except symbolically, but I’ve traveled places that match the descriptions… I would describe them as astral locations.


Bro I can’t even prove that I or you exist :joy: name of the game


in visions or evocations

whiche places those were?

As most people know, in visions, you will generally perceive whatever you expect to. That’s why Christians who believe astral travel is unnatural, always claim to be attacked by demons when they have an out of body experience. They expect it, so it happens.

There are as many descriptions of the “underworld” as there are people. It’s entirely subjective.


Its really based on you, you’re the operator an the artist, people can have similar experiences but it will vary, think about how communication can be twisted,
if I tell you something with another individual beside you, you may take what im saying in a totally different way for many reasons, firstly my facial expression, my tone of voice or even my eye contact, many many reasons blend into an ending result.

its all about your perception.

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So , as pointed out if you chose to go to a commonly understood place, you’ll get what you expect.

Examples I’ve been to are the Infernal, Kur, Hel, and the river Styx, and sort of underworld-adjacent you have limbo and purgatory.

There’s also the place described in NDEs as just dark, and the crossroads.

I frequently use “dark place” that I found naturally in shamanic journeying that seems to be not unlike the crossroads, limbo, or nde place. I call it “the dark place”. It’s a very malleable place that’s easy for most entities to get to, and its easier for me to go there and call them evoke. Kind of like that white nothing place in the matrix, where all the guns show up, but black.

But all in all, the idea of an underworld I think comes from the fact that we bury our dead. So the dead exist underground. It’s a short hop in imagination to see that as a realm. Which makes it more poetic in my mind, but the ancient Summerians believed in Kur, the underworld enough that they saw caves as gates to it, and their ghost exorcisms sent spirits back to it.

But like anything metaphysical, your proof has to be personal and experiential. Magick is not science, proofs are not relevant, my truthis not your truth, personal expertise matters. This one is up to you.

  1. There are several underworlds - See Qliphoth and the Qliphas
  2. Each person has his own inner underworld in which the dark contents of the subconscious are manifested.
  3. Is the underworld theme very much connected with the black sun theme - see Thagirion and therefore not sunless either.
  4. Are underworlds energetic dimensions in the world of Yezirah or the lower astral plane if one wants to use the Kabbalah or the magical plane model. Thus, the experience of these dimensions is individual and subjective and eludes scientific proofability in the sense of exists or does not exist.

With regards to various underworld locations, I’m reminded of something DH Throne alluded to.

LHP convienently ignores their own dogma.

Theism is something of an addiction, there are other approaches that are often ignored.