Greetings fellow weirdos.
I post this, so to ask you to help me obtain a full list of what or who,
each of the goetic “”“demons”“” were in pre-abrahamic times.
I tried to look at my two different copies (yes two, i was stupid like that)
of the ars goetia, but i cringed so hard reading that abrahamic garbage in the back.
Look, i get it, i could just get the sigils and the Enns (or construct or channel something)
and create my own -most personal and most virgin bridge to the original deities, i get it
buuuut… come on its like 72 names! so much work. Fuck.
So… since this topic isnt new by any means, i would like to know about some kind of source which i could look up, to know the pagan origins for each of those entities.
Thanks ! and uh, sorry for the annoyance if someone already posted this shit on balg
Except for 5-6 of them, i don’t think you will find solid informations about those demons in older sources.
Even Astaroth and Amon who share names with deities have different attributes from them.
I believe Goetia is a mix of minor servitors (Stolas), exotic spirits (Paimon) and more “famous” demons (Azazel, Astaroth, Asmodeus…) and mostly comes from an interpretation to oppose the 72 angels.
Contrary to popular Left Hand Path religious dogma, there is zero historical or factual evidence that the spirits in the Goetia were ever anything but what they are described as in that book, with the exception of a very small handful (5% of the total number).
What did you expect? This is like saying you want to eat a roast chicken but could be please not be a chicken, or be roasted?
It’s from the Lemegeton original grimoire from the 17th century by an anonymous author. That’s a time in history when grimoires were all at least paying lip service to Christianity to stay available. It is what it is. Don’t take it so seriously that you throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In fact, according to this article, we have Christianity to thank for the preservation and spread of Goetic magick in the west at all, through…
… a secret, loosely knit underworld of magical practitioners of priests, monks, and clerics. The knowledge of Latin accompanied with the familiarity of the exercise of exorcism gave these clerics the necessary background, and the secretive literature of the grimoires provided the rituals and technical information
As noted, there’s no consistent relation, but if you try the search on here you’ll find plenty of people who have played the matchy matchy game before you, you can use their UPG if you like. It will work or it won’t.
Here’s someone who wanted to match Egyptian gods and Goetia. (People said the same as they do here: it’s not useful.)
I think it would make more sense to just work with deities directly and cut out the fluff.
Doing work is what you need to get the practice to make you a better mage. There’s no such thing as too much practice, imo.
… though in this case you’d be wasting your time, imo, doing the work to prove that to yourself would at the same time expose you to a lot of good learning, a lot more than a spoon fed list.
If it’s a one size fits all you want, try E.A.'s conjuration for any spirit: no sigil, no enn, insert any name you like and rely on your clear intention to get the right guy. (Emphasis on clear thinking, since there’s no other way to clarify the target, this is a good way to get parasites if your spiritual hygiene and mind are not strong.)
To Summon Forth
Etsel Mala’kel
Test’zel Sam’tan’el
Itz Retz Nama’tel
Itz Hel Asta’Rel
Kama’Kala, Kama’Kala
Kama’Kala Satan’el (Spirit) Kama (Spirit) Kala (Spirit), Kama’Kala Vel.
Me Vaskalla
Me Solvalla
Me Res’Alla Ah’tan’tel
Repeat several times, as a conjuration of any spirit. Replace “(spirit)” with the name.
… historical evidence? sure, that is a sort of a thing (i mean, its one of the reasons why we can tell abrahamic types that their whole faith is at best made up of stolen material and the rest is just lies and politics)
but “factual evidence” bruh
there were no studies done on these occult/esosteric topics. all i can think of are some very few experiments with large groups, proving that prayer works to improve the lives of the targeted individuals, even the targets that were doubtful about spirituality of any sort. But that is about it.
Idk man, your response reads like word salad.
Feel free to explain what you meant exactly, or drop the topic entirely if you are not interested.
That is a interesting thought though.
So in a sense, the goetic demons are children of the original deities and the currents they emerged from. They are not necessarily the current, just like a child is not like its parents, but its “birth-environment” will influence their nature and attributes for all forseeable time.
interesting.
Yeah that is actually a good enough reason to work with them directly.
It woudl fit my perosnal Gnosis, as Venus was annoyed but respectful when she explained that she and Aphrodite and Ishtar are of the same “family” but not the same being, adding that “family” is a placeholder, a simulacrum to aid my understanding.
But still, (using the comparison from above)
even if i dont like both “parents” of the entity in question, i want to be able to honor the one that i like.
One unnecessarily dramatic post removed. @OddEmanation please abide by the posting guidelines and respond to the CONTENT of the post not what you perceive as it’s tone. Nobody is disrespecting you by disagreeing with your assumptions.
Actually there are many, and books on the topic, one of which I line above excerpted from he work of John Michael Greer… also see the work of Occult Historians like Dr Stephen Skinner.
You are making really gross assumptions and taking that as fact without proper research, which as you have said you won’t do because it’s too much work… so how would you even know?
If you expected whitepapers I don’t now what to tell you.
i just wanna know what you are trying to tell me
What you have asked for doesn’t exist outside of UPG.
We all already said that multiple times, I don’t think we can make it any simpler.
This post is going nowhere good, the OP seems to be becoming emotional and is accusing people of being “disrespectful” for responding, and the answer has been provided: post closed.
so much work. Fuck.
There’s no such thing as too much practice, imo.
