Are people of Haitian or African descent automatically initiated into Voodoo (Vodoun etc.)?
I’m Canadian. My parents are from Haiti. They know some things about Vodoun but lack knowledge, can’t serve Lwas properly and their lives are a mess (financially speaking).
We did consult TONS of Hougans and Mambos. We even visited Haiti in search for some but almost only came across charlatans and scams. Seems like nowadays it’s impossible to find good mentors that can help initiate one.
According to some authors, if NOT of Haitian or African Descent (apparently, we’re all connected to Africa), you may still call on Lwas.
No. Africans or Haitians (or anyone for that matter) are not automatically initiated into Voudon or any other ATR/ADR. Formal initiation must take place. Sorry to hear about you being scammed. I had that happen to me when I was studying Quimbanda. Apparently there’s only one legit House in the US and they’re way out in Cali. Didn’t know that back then, unfortunately.
Enlightener, that is sad to hear. Have your parents lost touch with your family in Haiti or have they all converted to Protestantism? There should be people who know your family the place your parents are from who can help. Montreal has a very large Haitian community with some great Sosyete, I am suprised that no-one could help? La Sosyete La Belle Deesse Dereale are definitely not charlatans…
Dont be mislead Baphomet, there are legitimate houses of Kimbanda throughout the US, but they are usually closed circles. Unless youre looking for a public house, thatll be difficult to find.
Cant say I do. If you venerate these spirits properly theyll lead you not just to a house but the right house for you. Thats the best advice I can give you.
Thanks for the advice but I’m not going to venerate spirits if I don’t have license to do so. Spirits of the ATRs are very hot. I’m not going to risk it.
Thanks for the advice but I’m not going to venerate spirits if I don’t have license to do so. Spirits of the ATRs are very hot. I’m not going to risk it.[/quote]
I bought a copy of “The Spider and The Green Butterfly” and began the Path working before backing off due to fear of the LOA. Some of the comments made in that book and comments made by other practitioners of ATRs convinced me that these entities are so volatile that it would be safer to try and learn to juggle chainsaws rather than initiate oneself into this system.
On one of E. A.'s videos about Voudon, Nate Bales points out some contradictory statements The book makes about initiating oneself into that system. E. A. Just grins and acknowledges the discrepancy. That grin said a lot… At least to me.
After thinking about it for a while, I have come to the conclusion that while the LOA are certainly powerful and interacted with differently than other entities, I do not believe that they are nearly as volatile as the people in power would have you believe. I honestly believe that the idea that one must be initiated by a Voudon grand hooha before you try to work with the LOA is bullshit designed to keep that power held to a few select people while scaring everybody else away.
This is extremely similar to the tactics used by Christianity to scare people away from magic and back into the flock. “If you call that demon up, you will end up being damned to hell for eternity! However, Father Bob can work something out with God on your behalf… You have been tithing, right?”
I started the self initiation described in the book about a month before my birthday. I received a very eerie gift from my mom as a birthday present. She gave me a mortar and pestle made from some sort of rock. I had been thinking that I would need to get a mortar and pestle to create some of the concoctions in the book. I did not ask for one and she knows nothing of my occult activities. When I opened the box I could feel the hair standing up on the back of my neck.
[quote=“FraterRibeye, post:12, topic:3047”]After thinking about it for a while, I have come to the conclusion that while the LOA are certainly powerful and interacted with differently than other entities, I do not believe that they are nearly as volatile as the people in power would have you believe. I honestly believe that the idea that one must be initiated by a Voudon grand hooha before you try to work with the LOA is bullshit designed to keep that power held to a few select people while scaring everybody else away.
This is extremely similar to the tactics used by Christianity to scare people away from magic and back into the flock. “If you call that demon up, you will end up being damned to hell for eternity! However, Father Bob can work something out with God on your behalf… You have been tithing, right?”[/quote]
That’s an interesting point and might draw some responses from our resident initiates!
I really do want to hear what some initiates have to say. I do not want to start an argument for the sake of starting an argument, but I do want someone to explain to me where I am mistaken… And a response of “you are just wrong. That’s just the way it is. You don’t know jack.” Doesn’t count as a valid response.
From what I understand you may seve the Lwa, your Exu’s, Pomba Gira’s etc without initiation, you may build a relationship with them and may receive blessings from them but they will not work magic for you as they would a priest of their tradition which is exactly what an initiate is. It is a big responsibility to put on one’s self and should not be taken lightly. As a non-initiate there is only so far you may go.
Exactly. The spirits will want you to get initiated if they desire for you to know them better. It will happen if they want it.
In Quimbanda at least, you can be initiated without being a Tata. Same goes for Santeria. I’m not sure about voodoo.
Also one thing you cannot do as a non initiate is bargain. You basically have no authority or right to do so that the spirits will recognize. You can give them offerings a nd politely ask, but you have zero guarantee anything will be done. Initiation is recognized by the spirits.
Tatas, houngans, olorishas etc. Can also read for you, to find out who’s in your spiritual court. Otherwise it’s just hit and miss. Though, I will say the Pomba Giras I was attracted to when I read Frisvold’s, a number of them were in my court. But not all of them.
A common thread I see in at least some of the ADR’s is the idea that The only way to get full access to, and cooperation with the LOA, LWA, etc. is if you work through the established system that just happens to be run by humans… Humans that are probably very happy with maintaining the status quo. After all, it has probably served them very well.
I am not saying that working through the established system does not work. I’m just speculating that there are other ways to work fully with the LOA that does not involve becoming a part of the establishment.
I will admit that a lot of my talk is due to my suspicion of organized religion. Religion is a very popular way to gain control of people and squeeze money out of them and I do not like the idea of becoming someone’s pawn.
[quote=“FraterRibeye, post:18, topic:3047”]A common thread I see in at least some of the ADR’s is the idea that The only way to get full access to, and cooperation with the LOA, LWA, etc. is if you work through the established system that just happens to be run by humans… Humans that are probably very happy with maintaining the status quo. After all, it has probably served them very well.
I am not saying that working through the established system does not work. I’m just speculating that there are other ways to work fully with the LOA that does not involve becoming a part of the establishment.
I will admit that a lot of this talk is due to my suspicion of organized religion. Religion is a very popular way to gain control of people, and I do not like the idea of becoming someone’s pawn.[/quote]
You’re letting fear cloud your judgment.
Humans do not run the ADR’s. The Spirits do. Unlike Christian priests, the initiates (priest and licensed initiates alike) are in constant contact with the spirits. A working is only done when the spirit is consulted and payment bargained and agreement made between the parties. The spirits are regularly summoned and fed, usually at least once a week, and spoken to during a session. Objects of power, consultations, etc. are all done with the spirit’s consent and force backing it up.
There is no other way to work fully with the Lwa. Sorry, the lwa have no reason to create another full system because they already have one. It’s called voodoo.
Perhaps you are correct. But I know I will always be skeptical until I run across a legitimate operation and they don’t try to pull the wool over my eyes. Lol.
As a sidenote, does anybody know of any legitimate operators in TN?
