Fictional characters from books and movies that are very popular… can they become entities of their own? If alot of people read the book/watch the movie and really love the character, post pictures of it, talk about it as if it is real to them etc… visualizing the character and sending their energy to it without realizing they are doing it… does it become a live thing?
And if so, what IS it really?
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Whenever something is thought, it becomes real. In fact, anything that can be thought already exists, at which point it becomes a matter of how people can realize it. Consider that a great deal of modern technology was a sci-fi device prior to it’s realization in this realm, and this doesn’t sound too out there.
So when we talk about fictional characters, they are actually quite real in their own universe. They can be summoned, and as for what they are… well they are whatever they are in their realm. So The Hulk is a human mutate who transforms into an unstoppable berserker when angry; Superman is an humanoid alien who’s race was wiped out in a planetary devastation.
It helps to also know that some of these characters are permutations and re-tellings of pre-existing cultural archetypes. For example, the Dragonball Series centers around the character Goku, who is the series main hero. However, his name is Son Goku, who is a traditional Japanese deity who shares any of the exact same characteristics as Goku from Dragonball. He is a monkey man, wields a staff that can transform its size and shape, rides on a flying Nimbus cloud, can change his size into a ferociously large Monkey Beast, and is indomitable in battle with an unlimited power shelf. So in essence, while this version of Goku is not the traditional one, it certainly is Son Goku to a point where this version of Goku could be considered an “aspect” of the deity Son Goku (Son Wukong in China, who is inspired from the the Indomitable Lord Hanuman).
Anime as a genre is quite notorious for using traditional archetypes like the Ninetails Fox, the Orochi Serpent, and many others and re-weaving their associations in the world to make them more modern. Hell, there is even several anime that use the names of Goetics to fit their characters, and the characters are quite often fashioned to mimic these entities rather than just using their name because it sounds cool.
Point is, if you can think of a particular entity, it’s already real. At this point, it is up to the person who thought it to realize it, rather as just a character whom you write down or depict in art, or something that you interact with organically through evocation/dream travel/astral projection. I wouldn’t say this if I didn’t have experience with this type of thing (in fact, it’s kind of my only real significant experience lol).
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So would an entity that had just been thought up, be less powerful than those who have been around a long time, and been thought of many times, like gods, angels, demons?
It is always interesting to look back and see how much a fictional character has influenced the waking world. For example if not for Son Goku (and lets be honest Vegeta) I would not have taken up martial arts. I made a TON of friends and traveled all around the U.S. (and into Canada) to participate in tournaments. Tea Kwon Do and Judo have become a fundamental aspect of how I see myself and I know I have influenced the lives of many people because I got the chance to get to know them through the dojo.
In some small way the world would not be the same if I had not started practicing martial arts. So in that essence Son Goku, a fictional character, has had a hand in shaping our world.
Personally thought forums/egregores that I have created have been less powerful than the Demons and Angels I have worked with. They seem to be limited in what they can do (well I created them so their lack of power/effectiveness may just speak to how far I have left to travel on this unending journey to Godhood) but they can do very specific tasks, and do them well.
Nothing life changing, but while I worked as a roof salesman I made an egregore that helped me sale a set number of roofs a week. Most weeks it was right on target, and I felt like I always had to take it apart and “recalibrate” it. Later I worked with an Archangel and found that I only had to ask him once and I sold far more than with my egregore.
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There is a further point to bring up to this notion.
If you can evoke living people. Fictional characters are not too far off to be certain.
But I suspect they will be fairly limited in what they can do as they may be fixed to functioning in a capacity that the general consciousness believes them to be capable of.
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Not nessecerily, it really depends on the origin of that thought, what I find is alot of the time fiction channels energy that was already there. So it could just as easily originate with something stronger as it could with something weaker. If your just making a thought form, then yeah it’ll be weaker, but if its something that has already been around, the real deal your getting the idea/energy from it could very well be more powerful.
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There is an essay in Dark Lore vol 5 or 6 about authors who have encounters with their fictional characters in real life.
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Not nessecerily, it really depends on the origin of that thought, what I find is alot of the time fiction channels energy that was already there. So it could just as easily originate with something stronger as it could with something weaker. If your just making a thought form, then yeah it’ll be weaker, but if its something that has already been around, the real deal your getting the idea/energy from it could very well be more powerful.[/quote]
See, and the way I have been seeing it, the stuff is already around. Our perception of time has a lot to do with how much these powers actually work with us, as well as our perceptions of things overall. I mean, how many entities have the same power, unlock the same human abilities? Now in our timeline, certain entities may have been realized prior to others, but in terms of reality, they are all the same age, which is ageless.
Let’s just take thoughtforms. Why are they weaker? Is it because they aren’t as old, or is it because people automatically consider the thing weaker because it doesn’t have a known history? In my experience, it is the latter, although most people will not agree with this. But consider that people can evoke entities like Astaroth easier than Shiva, even though Astaroth, as well as many other Goetics, are in fact deities themselves. Why is this the case? I can’t think of any reason other than the fact that Goetics are not recognized as deities in our psychological schemas, whereas Shiva is an All-Deity in his pantheon. Hell, the deities revolving around Goetics are even as old, maybe even older, than deities like Shiva or Hekate, but they still are easier to evoke. At least to some degree, I would posit that this has to do with viewing “demons” on a lower power scale than deities, know what I mean?
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There is an essay in Dark Lore vol 5 or 6 about authors who have encounters with their fictional characters in real life.
Yeah, Chaos Magick current has a great deal of this, I have read about Alan Moore experiences with that kind of phenomena, and I have seen fictional characters in both lucid dreams and oobe, once I even saw astral nasties disguise as pikachus all over my old apparment, and it was no joke I was really piss for some reason and I’m not into pokemon or anything.
Let's just take thoughtforms. Why are they weaker? Is it because they aren't as old, or is it because people automatically consider the thing weaker because it doesn't have a known history? In my experience, it is the latter, although most people will not agree with this. But consider that people can evoke entities like Astaroth easier than Shiva, even though Astaroth, as well as many other Goetics, are in fact deities themselves. Why is this the case? I can't think of any reason other than the fact that Goetics are not recognized as deities in our psychological schemas, whereas Shiva is an All-Deity in his pantheon. Hell, the deities revolving around Goetics are even as old, maybe even older, than deities like Shiva or Hekate, but they still are easier to evoke. At least to some degree, I would posit that this has to do with viewing "demons" on a lower power scale than deities, know what I mean?
completely agree with this point of view tho I have thought about something specific when you create an entity and you create the full cycle of the entity, you know, their programated dead, they do disappear or at least they seems to be absent of both in practical work and in communication, but what if is still there? just “pretending” you know, playing the game of us believing with all our heart that they are dead.
I have used Naruto and characters from Narnia in astral defense, tho I have never evoked any character in a ritual.
@Orismen have you ever think of invoking Goku or Vegeta for some sort of possesion maybe in training or in battle?
either way, I think that one should go with what works best, if fictional character work good for you I don’t see any problem
Another thing, if you make a thought form/egregore while in your godform the skys pretty much the limit, you can make something as good or better then established entities if you are able to do that.
But yeah it’s pretty interesting the energy that goes through fictional works, aside from entities characters are based on or created off of, you can use that energy for stuff you are doing if you know how.
Lets talk a little bit about the anime deathnote, it didn’t occur to me that much until recently, but in some ways I’m very similar to deathnotes protagonist, Light Yagami, though I like to think that I go about things in a bit more practical way trying to make the world fit my ideals then how Light does.
Anyway I was in the middle of a ritual and was going to attack a certain group, this scene where Light was killing criminals was playing in the background on the laptop as I was executing the attack, I actually just had the episode playing in the background and it just “coincidently” lined up perfectly with what I was doing as the scene played
As it was I actually sort of channeled the energy from that said scene and began to raining death down on them just as Light did in the fictional story.
Stuff like music and movies can help influence energy in certain ways while in an altered state which is the reason why I had it play an episode of deathnote since it was in alignment with what I was doing.
Also one of my occult teachers other students apprently has the actually entity the fictional shinigami Ryuk was based on living with him.
That is awesome! It seems like a lot of magicians have been getting synchronicities lately. Do you think that working in your Godform may cause more of synchronicities?
Oh since the topic of fictional characters moved to anime.
Time for me to bring up an observation I made in relation to the lore of a particular circle and that of evocation itself.
Its the lore of the nasu-verse made by Type-moon. Specifically the setting of Fate Stay/Night, Fate/Zero, basically the world of ‘Fate’ which was created by the chief author in the circle of Type-moon.
What it consists of is storylines relating to a ‘Holy Grail War’ where Magi would contest with each other to obtain a so-called holy grail. To aid themselves in doing this, they summon the spirits of legendary or mythic heroes into being to do battle.
The funny thing about this is that, these ‘Heroic Spirits’ are called down from something referred to as the ‘Throne of Heroes’. It just clicked with this memory when I was watching how E.A referred in passing that you could pull down multiple instances of the same entity. Its strangely similar with this ‘Throne of Heroes’ as it merely stores the ‘data’ of the individual hero in question and that what is called down is merely a copy of this data (a single instance if you will).
Now, how did the author even get inspired to think of something like that which is somehow not to far from how things really work? Funny thing to think about. I’ll probably ask some spirit or evoke the author some day when I’m more proficient.
So talking about fictional character evocation, why don’t we make this thing interesting?
I propose to write a series of stories, all related to a single character displaying a certain set of abilities, the character does not need to be related to magick but we need to agree in the set of skills. After a few short stories about the character are complete, we can proceed to the experiment.
Anyone can evoke the character, using the techniques they see/feel as necesary, no need of standar ritual or anything alike, everyone use the way they want and we post both the procedure and the result. maybe we can find some patterns.
This is different than creating an egregore because is not going to have a detail list of magickal skills nor it will be standarized in its behaviour, power or evocation procedure.
Also we need too register our beliefs, for example about “time”, as the1gza said, the belief about oldest=more powerful is there and this kind of thing needs to be tested as a variable.
If someone consider the experiment useless because of the number of readers, the whole story telling may be spread to literature forums, facebook accounts, we can create a fucking twetter and and couple of blog to spread the word. the whole think may take a week or two in a relaxed way before we start with the evocation, or we can even evoke before and after the story has been spread so that way we’ll see how much (or less) the character is affected the by the quantity of readers/viewrs/worshipers
I propose a series of abilities or tendencies for the character that can be easy to test and prove, and difficult to find in any other entity:
-it has the tendency to find money while is walking by the street.
-it has the tendency to atract women in red clothes. kids with green shoes-anything alike.
-he/she/it has a tendency to see yellow cars.
-does not like mayonese (we’ll see if it play with our sense of taste)
-dogs are really friendly and obidient to him/her.
-it is very common for pigeons/doves/anybird to rest in its shoulder.
-has the hability to stop clocks just by staring at them for a while.
-can speak in rhymes for hours if he/she wants
now, the entity/character may be a human, male or female or whatever, can be a monster, an animal, a spiritual being or even ball of sparks (tho i find difficult to make it with just that), may have other kinds of skills such as walking in completely silence, ninja skills, singer skills, magic (d. copperfield) skills, whatever.
It needs to have a strong character and personality, and also some specific stuff like favorite dish, favorite days, hours (like “she loved the time after lunch, just being there watching the celling”), and above all that, it needs some room for “surprise” you know, “sudden change” or something, the capacity to evolve.
I propose this character may be thought as more playful, charming and helpful than firghtening/harmful for practical reasons, it does not need to be weak, not at all, it can have guardian skills if someone wants to play that card, it may even be enthusiastic about something like card desks, stencil and street art (good way to spread the name or a web page with the tale).
and the last of my ideas for the moment is that we need to have some kind of key or password to destactivate the character this may come in hand y by two reasons, first if it turns to be annoying (it doesn’t need to be tho) and second, to test if once the thing is destroyed can be evoked again, although this part really doens’t need to be, so… who wants to play?
ps: this have the plus that we may end up creating a good and thrusworthy thoughform we can even put in the story that is “one of the BALG, and he/she has sworn alligence!” We may even tell how it kills the Slenderman… SINGLE HANDED… endless posibilities
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All sorts of down for this. I prepose that this entity have a favorite scent, I nominate sandalwood. We can use this as its signature. Example, if we end up making this a “get laid quick” kind of entiy, you may run into an attractive person while you get a wiff of sandalwood, letting you know that our entity is working on getting you laid.
Thats a great idea,I think it in sort of a narrative way… kind of "…and there he was, using his sandalwood scent as always, making her way through the people until he could reach her; it didn’t took long to have her moaning after their eyes locked.
-Hi, how are you?- he asked casually, shoulder to shoulder with her.
-Fine- she said with a subtle smile.
-Me too, so would you like to go to my place?- he said locking her eyes, not so intense, yeet not retracting himself. He knew wha he had just asked, and so did she.
“This guy doesn’t lose time” she thought while the look in her eyes irradiated the perfect mix of shock and awe. She didn’t say yes… at first"
kind of like that, after that he may well go someplace else and kill a unicorn with using just a pencil as weapon.
Neat stuff- I was going to comment about a project in the 1970s about paranormal researchers (back when Ouija, and auto-writing, (ie ideomotor scribbling, not as in write what sems to make sense) -were big)… the question what if we asked questions not of a “deceased” per research… but made someone up… so they started to throw out ideas (as I recall it being game-like built up, and when more systematic-work list building it didn’t), history of… etc and then contact and fit, with other elaborations- implications fleshing out automatically so to speak… (people commented as skeptics could use as dispute 'ghosts" per “mind”… and non-traditional esoterics could use to believe anything madeup- thus linked to the Tulpas reference in the one yoga tale, etc.) anyway- reason it seemed to get more press mention than it would today (?) - there was a book I have (stored in a box) called Conjuring Philip… (found link on Amazon, not too much detail- but reviews have some refs)
[url=http://www.amazon.com/Conjuring-Up-Philip-Adventure-Psychokinesis/dp/0671811037/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380257820&sr=8-1&keywords=conjuring+philip]http://www.amazon.com/Conjuring-Up-Philip-Adventure-Psychokinesis/dp/0671811037/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380257820&sr=8-1&keywords=conjuring+philip[/url]
searching after above- there is this article… below has some details- but the big twists as I caught were how they got together told stories as they sang songs, and played “kids” games… idea being the “playful” mind? (of participants? of the ghost? or wandering spirits that learned along? -many seemed to think- if MakeUp… then not a spirit- but? anwyay- link to the article)
[url=http://www.allsupernatural.net/paranormal/ouija/story/471/creating-philip-tulpas-and-ouija-boards/]http://www.allsupernatural.net/paranormal/ouija/story/471/creating-philip-tulpas-and-ouija-boards/[/url]
when I first started to write this msg the below content started… so
[ actually the power of a story can draw in aspects if the story “catches the imagination” rather than trying to control it too much (less a description and more of the Soothsaying Baardic tales- that cast “spells” using page-length fragments of story-chars)… if one wanted to ref Memetic Magic (Packwood)- although what you have proposed above covers this… ] I hope this might help add some ideas… and spark more of what started here-
(the question of what might help this “bld” and stabilize- like a spark in tinder before it becomes flame… as devels what helps sustain it, ie like the soft air blow on, as campfire might need…
and then secondly- contact, ask “it” how to help it further stabilize and develop<?>
(rather than “tack it all down” I’d leave a number of gaps- room to flex as well as grow vs fully define, but that’s just a thought… luck
I get what you mean about that “catches the imagination” it is much better, and easier, even, the thing is that we can even create short poems about the character, stories, poems, drawings, whatever, the thing is not getting too “serious” about it, just talk about a “guy” and what he can “do” and let it loose in the wild world of the internet and the deep layers of the human subconsious
That is a really fun idea EpicGnome!
maybe the kind of creature he is could be known as a BALG or BALGrr or something like that? 
like Balgor? sounds kind of like Baldurs and Belphegor, wich habilities are by far good to consider in the creation
Introducing L. Balgor the Lucky Fellow
L. Balgor was a good fellow
he could run and walk
on the air, above the jelous
He knew sometimes rest is good
he enjoys women
smelling sandalwood
He often sees this car -is yellow;
he is quite good whent it comes to curse
L. Balgur, powerful lucky fellow!
He enjoys music, like Tom Morello’s
and when it comes to games
beware, he’s better than Costello.