I “feel” (emotionally am resonant with) that we are sort of doing a disservice to budding occultists when we teach them they need to learn to “feel” energy because “feel” has at least four distinct meanings.
I “feel” there is a presence of someone in the room but can’t see them. This is probably the vaguest because it could be clairsentience but also overlaps with claircognizance. Clairsentience being clearly sensing an invisible presence through the body with it functioning as an antenna kind of creating that nebulous “gut feeling.” Claircognizance being “clear knowing” the knowledge infused directly into the mind bypassing reasoning processes.
I “feel” that person’s having a bad day. Clairempathy- having an internal emotional response to another’s emotions because you participate with them through sympathy.
I “feel” the spirit astrally with my astral body. This is clairtangiency- feeling in the analogous physical sense of the word. Actually it isn’t really analogous, it’s literal in this sense especially when the astral body is interwoven with waking physical sensation. An example of this is remembering what a texture felt like, and then pretending to feel it again with your hands and then getting that mental memory into sense memory. It’s quasi physical, almost physical, it’s THERE but not. This is the beginning realm of spirit sex. Sensations in the mental and astral bodies bleed either directly into physical sensation or sense memory.
I “feel” this is the right answer. This is simply claircognizance, direct intuition.
I just think it’s helpful if we refine our vocabulary, because our vocabulary affects the way we think of things, and we can then direct people to the field of knowledge relevant to their desire. If you want tangible contact with spirits, work on developing clairtangiency through slow sensual meditations on a variety in environments and textures. If you want to have clairempathy to feel another’s emotions, practice conventional empathetic listening. Etc.
I usually use “sense” - which is even more vague to be honest. part f the issue here is how people feel energy can be different person to person. So you don’t want to set an expectation that is feels a very specific way only to have them dismiss what they do sense and invalid when t’s not.
I don’t really see a problem with the word feel or sense, it starts the conversation without being too much and people can always elaborate if asked. I’ve never had an issue understanding what someone means.
Sorry what’s the difference? I only use clairsentience.
Bear in mind most people on this forum are not native English speakers. They may be using translation programs and may not even know if the equivalent word exists in their language or of a translation program would translate it correctly.
If you try too hard to set fluency standards for language, people who don’t know these English words can get confused and left out.
I would suggest you simply set the example with your own posts and that will help people get more specific, if they want to, and you can always ask people for more detail.
For me it’s the opposite - people will talk more about what the “see” and not what they felt, emotionally or energetically, and that’s very important. Also I think many people here are newer to the topic, and this is pretty advanced stuff.
I would not want them to post even less because they feel they would be judged for not meeting a high standard for language use. This can always be clarified with deeper discussion if the ball can start rolling in the first place.
It’s more understanding distinct concepts and knowing how to categorize our experiences in them. Claircognizance is clear knowing, so it’s that instantaneous knowledge that a thing is or is not so that bypasses reason. What we imagine pure intuition to be as opposed to the body being an antenna that detects presence- clairsentience.
Honestly, I don’t use any of these fancy terms like claire… whatever. Either I feel a presence of a demon I’m working with or not. Either I know stuff or not. Either I see something or not. No vocabulary will change it but some people may get confused, as @Mulberry said English may not be their native language (heck, it’s not my native language but I know it pretty well I think XD).
Personally I like to use like what do you feel or what do you sense they both apply and use for the same thing I feel there a angry spirit here or I sense there a angry spirit here, sure you can use fancy term like Clairsentience and any other term but the normal everyday person probably won’t know what thous are or where to even begin learn said thing even thou every human alright has thou thing already I thing using I feel or I sense is not bad at all I’m my own personal view point
So that when people say what kind of feeling to develop we know where to focus our attention. Like in spirit communication, what are you going to develop first if you feel you are lacking in something? Depends on the kind of communication you want- physical touch, verbal communication, sensing their presence, feeling their feelings- how will you know what to develop if you don’t understand both what you lack and what you want?
We are supposed to be black magicians not normally every day people. There should be no such thing as magic for dummies. This path is inherently elitist, we should act like it, not in terms of fake knowledge, but in priding ourselves for rising above the rabble. We can’t do that by making minimal efforts.
I don’t really agree. Magick belong to everybody of all types.
And that doesn’t automatically mean "language nerd". Some people are kitchen witches and know all the cunning plants, some are shamanic, some use complext terms but not western ones.
I see the utility as I enjoy precise language and I’m a native English speaker myself, but I don’t think it’s appropriate or helpful to tell people they’re “doin’ it rong” if they don’t use YOUR terms all the time.
And I don’t agree that not using the “clairs” terminology means someone is not making an effort, I don’t think that’s fair at all.
You could make the same argument for a mage not learning Sanskrit, or all the mudras, or memorizing the 72 names of “god”, and it would also be unreasonable. There are as many paths as there are mages, you it’s not up to you to tell them how to do their inner work, or belittle them for not using the labels you like.
The reason why I said the normal person in goes for people that are new to witchcraft that may come from different background you don’t need to dump down magic but teaching people is all about coming from an understanding of where they are at in there knowledge base and helping grow to new forms of knowledge,
whst do you mean by This path is inherently elitist, there is only the path that person follows and that work for them best there is no such a gernal path every person spiritural path is different
you also say you can’t do this with minimal efforts. In watch I disagree with a person can do small ritual and or spell work and praying and or channeling in small amounts and it be just as effective as person that does everyday rituals or spell work on daily base small amounts of work add up to big things and there should be no judgement of if a person does X amount of rituals/spell work what ever have you vs someone that does it on every day base
The path is only about your own spiritual growth and that it.
Well that’s fair, but I am really just talking about being clear (pun intended) for the sake of people who can’t distinguish the four degrees of “feel.” But yeah, that’s your right.
Exactly ! Same as I. I think trying to overcomplicate Magickal terms take away the intuitive factor of yourself and put more on “scientific terms”. It not resonates with me, but to some I see how knowing and using that paradigm can help in the occult arts.
If you’re really above the “common folk” if such thing exists (everyone use magick), you wouldn’t be here discussing terms that just some people will use. There are no “muggles”, reality is no Harry Potter book.
Do you know the history of the transmission black magick in the west? It came from rebellious exorcists and lower clerics in the Church who were experimenting with documents preserved by the Arabs. It was a clandestine and elitist thing.
Now it is true that the mechanics of magick are accessible to all. But the black magician is working according to a specific ideal and a specific paradigm which makes its nature secretive and therefore it tends to be elitist. Sure you can have common lower level stuff that people can make work, happens all the time.
The point of this thread is that we should help people understand more clearly what they are trying to do by understanding it ourselves. Do we really imagine our magical practice is going to get better by being content with bad explanations of bad ideas that only work through the quantum effect of expectation- and barely at that?
I just think we can do better and tighten it up. I mean, what kind of person wouldn’t want to?
Lower level how? How do you measure this? Is there any metric for this?
So “black magick” only came to the west when Exorcists (??? Base on what?) came? So the Indians did not practice black magick? What about Skinwalkers in America? What about Magickal wars between tribes in the Central America and here in Brazil?
It’s only secretive and “elistist” because people in power are afraid to have other people with the same power or even more powerful than they, so they put that cloak that Magick is something complex that needs very academic research or whatever… But in reality most of the basic stuffs in Magicka like Hermeticism and animism comes from direct contact with nature, that even our ancestors from the prehistoric period had knowledge about that.
Again who said that these “explanations” are bad, or that somehow exist “bad ideas” (bad intuition??) regarding Magick. What you’re saying is UPG, same as everyone, you’re not using the correct “Universal” term, because such thing doesn’t exist. You can make all your meta paradigms that you want, but you can not go to people saying that their way of describing things is wrong.
You talk so much about black magicians, but forgot that the Left Hand Path values your own experiences and Free Will. The practice of Pathworking itself is different in each person, I don’t get how do you want to tell that what you feel is what other have to feel or describe.
I know that you want to help, but as @Mulberry said, it can confuse non English speakers (like me and other people), and can seem like you’re imposing something as right. If you want to help people you can report your experiences and the methods you use, this way it becomes much easier to learn and there is a greater chance of people understanding why they should use it, rather than just what.
Please don’t throw me in the same bag as you put yourself in, I don’t sympathize and am not a part of your “we”. I don’t agree and I stay away from any from of elitism. I don’t care what kind of “elitist/mystic/black/whatever” veil you want to put over yourself, I certainly don’t want to be associated with something like this. And this kind of behavior made me solitary practicioner, precisely to avoid being mixed with elitists. Magick is not restricted for super-high-absolutely-etc. sorcerers/magicians/wizards/necromancers/insert_“appropriate”_name". And while I laugh hard at “online course to make your lover love you” or something similar, even books sometimes cited here, I understand some people don’t have necessary perseverance and patience to develop some skills on their own, to find connection they need, to even understand what kind of connection they need, and they simply feel better following guides. But this doesn’t make you, particularly, since you obviously are “above” whatever, better.
I never mentioned myself as having attained any particular level, I am talking about the classical ideal of the black magician tending toward elitism.
But as I said, the reason really for the thread was to try to disambiguate the way we use the word “feel” and try to explain how the four types of feeling really deserve their own terms and categories.
I respect your right to be different. As you respect mine.
! Same as I. I think trying to overcomplicate Magickal terms take away the intuitive factor of yourself and put more on “scientific terms”. It not resonates with me, but to some I see how knowing and using that paradigm can help in the occult arts.