Hi there BALG. Today, I came upon a comment section of people who generally describe themselves as “rationalists,” and they seem to mock people who are into “magic.” They call themselves more scientific and seem to laugh at the idea of magic. For example, they were mocking “manifestation” and mocked those who believed in it to the point of being very offensive about it and seeming to think of those who believe in it as if they’re subhuman. They said things like “I can’t believe people believe in magic these days. The education system should’ve wiped that way of thinking out, but it made a resurgence.” and “It depresses me that these people vote and I share the road with them” and “they’re stuck in a child phase of make-believe.” I haven’t had any magick come through for me yet and I’ve never seen nor heard any entities, or especially have it tell me a piece of information that later is shown to be truly being a source of confirmation, so I’m having a personal crisis right now and feel degraded. They also were mocking Remote Viewing by saying that it’s just “guesswork that’d be in a room and they got it right by chance” and that people who believe in it or practice it “ignore the negative [readings] and only acknowledge the positive ones.” I can some times have a mind that isn’t difficult to manipulate, so things like this get to me, and I don’t want these kinds of thoughts in my head because if I try to practice magick, this can cause lusting for results, which as we all know is very detrimental.
Hey there
I totally get you man. I had lots of issues before getting results. And also, I was a hardcore atheist who would say stuff like that you heard.
Now, while people can be cruel, remember that they are just talking from their own perspective: they have seen no magick so they have no reason to believe magick is real.
If you’re doing the effort to make things happen, then you’re on the right track to make magick and get results. Keep working on it and believe what you experience, otherwise and edgelord or the other would take all of our money (maybe we should donate to the edgelord so he can finally hire a pro to take his virginity, but just because we’re nice people)
In a way I used to be one of them before I was into the occult. I was supremely skeptical, but through practicing divination there was a point where I could no longer deny that there is absolutely no way I could have been able to predict the things I did. It is really scientifically impossible for my readings to have been so accurate if there was nothing more to it than chance.
These people just follow random “studies” and popular culture and think that they are above others for not believing in anything spiritual. There are more complex reasons for their mindset but at least for a lot of the young people in the USA they tend to use it as an ego boost, that they aren’t like the “sheeple”.
Science is notorious for dismissing anything it can’t measure. Scientists base their beliefs on “concrete” data. I get that. The problem is their data is limited to what can be measured on the spectrum perceivable by the five human senses and the limited human intellect and the extent of the human brain’s capabilities to comprehend and understand the world and universe around it, and science is also limited to the instruments it creates that can surpass our very finite ability to grasp the tangible. I don’t know that I’m a rationalist. I don’t really perceive myself as such but I’m certainly a skeptic and only believe in about 1 to 3 % of say, what I read on this forum. But that small percent is all it takes. Just let a “rationalist” spend a night or two alone in one of the world’s notoriously haunted places and let’s see how they rationalize things that have scared the holy hell out of them that they can’t explain. Those kinds of experiences have opened the mind to more than one rationalist, or skeptic, or whatever one wants to call a person completely dismissive of magick and the paranormal, to things they previously outright scorned or dismissed.
I think it is important to point out that scientists are not, for the most part, “rationalists.”
Yes, science studies the physical world, but they also study non physical things, like human consciousness. Who do you think first coined the term placebo effect, and observer effect? Certainly not occultists or spiritualists. They come from science, and research into how the human mind effects the body.
Duke University had a world famous lab that published peer-reviewed scientific papers detailing experiments on how consciousness could alter probability, even retroactively through time.
Rationalists are like the religious extremists of the scientific world. They reject anything that doesn’t fit into their very narrow interpretation. To be a true scientist requires an open mind, and a willingness to think outside the box. That’s how new discoveries are made. No scientific leap was ever made by someone who tried to reduce everything to simple rationalism.
Rationalism has it’s place, as does scepticism, in a strong and healthy mind. When dealing with the unknown, it is always better to look for logical solutions, than to immediately jump to the fantastical explanation for something. It provides a bulwark against self delusion and psychosis when exploring the deep mind. However, sometimes the fantastical is the rational explanation.
And for the record, who ever made that claim about remote viewing has no clue what they’re talking about if they say it was only down to chance. The military had a remote viewing program for a reason, and its success rate was statistically higher than 50/50 probability. There are numerous books about it for anyone who actually wants to see the results. They shut it down because of budget cuts, not because of lack of success. The purse holders thought more missiles and bullets were a better investment of resources.
Edit to add: Science and magick used to go together hand in hand. Each was a way to learn about the world we live in. Chemistry, biology, mathematics, astronomy, botany, all came from alchemy and other mystical practices. The ancients never saw a division between the spiritual and the material.
May I ask what you mean by “sheeple”?
This is very true.
That makes sense. I’m no longer in a crisis right now.
Appreciate all of you.
Ah yes, scientism, “the dogmatic belief that a narrow interpretation of today’s scientific worldview is infallibly correct”, as Dean Radin put it. There actually have been scientific studies into “magical” phenomena (remote viewing/influence, precognition, effect of intent influencing “random” outcomes, etc.) with modest but statistically significant results.
I always find it funny that these materialists and “rationalists” and atheists scorn people who don’t share their views as being narrow-minded sheeple, blind to the fact that they’re being equally narrow-minded.
Sheeple (singular: “sherson” 
) is a portmanteau of “sheep” and “people”, it’s an insult that implies someone cannot think for themselves and simply follows herd mentality by believing whatever they are told without question.
Idk where it originated but it does funnily enough have ties to this discussion in general: The Sheep-Goat Effect | Psi Encyclopedia
I, too, recently had a very unpleasant conversation of this kind, which was a good opportunity to analyse how people with this mindset really function. It’s all about arrogance and protecting their ego. Some people use their beliefs to feel superior to others, and aren’t even remotely interested in finding out what’s actually true. It’s not simply that they don’t believe something, it’s that they don’t want it to be true - because in that case they’d have to admit that they were wrong, which is the last thing they’re capable of.
Yeah, there’s a really brutal irony to that.
One thing that has landed me a psych diagnosis its referred to as “magical thinking”.
This puzzles me as logically thinking, why is it such a delusional and psychologically dangerous idea or facotr, then why does every bookstore have sections devoted to occult and divination; and why is every magician related movie so prevalent in the entertainment industry?
I consider emotions can be part of a sixth sense.
I was a skeptical atheist for a brief time in my early teens. I found it didn’t work for me because I didn’t have a big enough ego to think I was always right all the time. I think the other reason some people turn to this mindset, is because they are worried they might have to deal with the supernatural, and if they dismiss it, then they don’t have to deal with it
The ironic thing about that though, is if someone is seriously mentally ill, they expect you to identify this as the case. I mean, if everyone hates this person and treats them poorly, then it is something wrong with the person everyone hates, even if they didn’t do anything except give off “negative vibes”, but if we can’t acknowledge what negative vibes are, then it becomes like a catch 22.
I consider myself a rationalist. And an occultist. And I have a degree in Theoretical Psychics from the University of London.
What is good to understand about physics - as I was taught in college - is that all we have are MODELS. We do not have “truth”. We make a model that is a simplified version of what we OBSERVE, and use it to make predictions. Later if the predictions were correct, the model is kept, if the predictions were wrong, we adjust the model or discard it and try another one.(edited)
Nothing in science is technically “truth”, or even realism, and it’s not, or shouldn’t be, philosophy. Just best estimates for future behaviour based on observations.
And how much isn’t observed with current instruments? Most of it.
Logically then, current science is inadequate to predict of explain most of what we call the occult, which literally means, the unseen. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, can’t be used and experienced, or leveraged.
Yes, because they are operating on belief, not their own observations of results.
They also seem to me unaware of studies into things like energy working, remote viewing and psychic phenomenon, which are actively used in the military and have been for decades with provable accuracy rates up to 98%.
Ironically they are exhibiting 'magickal thinking" and I think, cognitive dissonance. They have identified themselves with a philosophical position, and can’t change that without feeling that their very identity is under attack. This is a very hard position for the ego to let go of, as it wants to protect itself as much as possible.
Whenever that happens, check out this guy and soak up this attitude and energy:
TL;DR: If you want it, you can’t let these people distract you. Cut them out and focus on you and your goals. “Stay hard.”
I think, and maybe sometimes already wrote elsewhere on Internet, that “certain things” seem irrational and illogic because one miss some puzzle pieces. For starters, it would suffice the book by Joanny Bricaud about basic occult theory in order to provide them.
And I wonder why everything should be measurable; this sort of belief reached such a point that I’ve read scientists still have to measure a feeling, as a proof that it exists. You’d think that a feeling do exist just because is felt…
Maybe you can just keep your work to yourself so they will not give you negative energy.
If you pay close attention you will see spirit dosnt always communicate verbally.
I always saw that as advanced work.
You’ve hit the nail on the head right here!
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I will come back to reply to some of the others things. There are a lot of amazing points and I don’t have time to hit on the ones I want to right now.
Science is about experimentation, not about sticking to a rigid hypothesis. Limited perspective and lack of challenging your own beliefs will never allow for discovery. These rationalists don’t seem to be willing to explore and seem more comfortable belittling others who think differently. It doesn’t seem very scientific to me, but rather religious. Magick can be very scientific in nature by using the scientific method to find what works and doesn’t work for you. Don’t be afraid to experiment and remember that perspective can lead to discovery
There’s the answer.
Al.
This is usually why I don’t discuss my occult workings/and or thoughts with rationalists.
Just on a utilitarian level, I don’t know how people can handle being scientific, materialist atheists. A ‘life’ of chemical reactions, nerve circuits and electronic pulses. How fucked is that? Do yourself and all of us a big favour and commit suicide - you ignorant, stupid, pieces of filth; you lacking in experience disbelieving dregs!
Al.
Its almost impressive, how some people are so quick to spell out the truth for you about subjects they dont know anything about 
How about do some research and we can talk.