Evoking God with a capital G?

Spirits, Evocation & Possession
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Hello everyone,

Due to genuine curiosity I’m interested to see if anyone has ever worked with/had experience with Yahweh. Evoking other Gods doesn’t seem to be an issue, people talk about it on here all the time and I myself have worked with Thoth and Anubis, so from experience it IS possible to evoke a god. Why then has no one posted an experience of evoking the Christian God? Entities within the Christian pantheon evidently exist -having worked with Raphael and Michael I can confirm they are very real and so is their power…lol, so my question is, has anyone ever evoked Yahweh? If so, what were the results?

Another interesting discussion would be if you were to Michael -for example, about the nature of Yahweh and if he even existed. I consider myself a black magician now, and believe in what I experience, having worked with demons, spirits, Angels and gods I believe in them, but not once has an angel lectured me on praying more or abstaining from sin to please God, neither has a demon warned me that making pacts would ‘bar thee from heaven’ as Mephistoloes says in Faustus. So I guess the real question is, WHERE DOES YAHWEH FIT IN WITH ALL THIS?
Do you think he is a physical entity? Or simply an idea made up by the church?

I’m genuinely interested in the discussion.
Alonze!

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[quote=“Azael, post:1, topic:7902”]Hello everyone,

Due to genuine curiosity I’m interested to see if anyone has ever worked with/had experience with Yahweh. Evoking other Gods doesn’t seem to be an issue, people talk about it on here all the time and I myself have worked with Thoth and Anubis, so from experience it IS possible to evoke a god. Why then has no one posted an experience of evoking the Christian God? Entities within the Christian pantheon evidently exist -having worked with Raphael and Michael I can confirm they are very real and so is their power…lol, so my question is, has anyone ever evoked Yahweh? If so, what were the results?[/quote]

While I have never evoked Yahweh, I was a Christian mystic and I did experience visions of him. He’s a very Saturnian entity, and was definitely initially a tribal deity, whenever we spoke he always declared himself as “The god of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.”

He’s very much a taskmaster, as Saturnian entities tend to be, but he definitely has a matured feeling to him. As though he had grown in wisdom instead of the traditional understanding of him being an omni-god.

[quote=“Azael, post:1, topic:7902”]Another interesting discussion would be if you were to Michael -for example, about the nature of Yahweh and if he even existed. I consider myself a black magician now, and believe in what I experience, having worked with demons, spirits, Angels and gods I believe in them, but not once has an angel lectured me on praying more or abstaining from sin to please God, neither has a demon warned me that making pacts would ‘bar thee from heaven’ as Mephistoloes says in Faustus. So I guess the real question is, WHERE DOES YAHWEH FIT IN WITH ALL THIS?
Do you think he is a physical entity? Or simply an idea made up by the church?

I’m genuinely interested in the discussion.
Alonze![/quote]

Historically, it’s my understanding that Yahweh is a tribal deity, and he wasn’t just worshiped by the Jews, a few other tribes and nations added him to their pantheons. Interestingly enough, Allah was the father god of the old pagan Arabic pantheon, and Yahweh was an addition to this pantheon, meaning to those pagan Arabic, Yahweh was the creation of Allah. This was much before Islam cane around.

Yahweh was a warrior God and his spirit caused men to be better warriors (David, Samson, Gideon, etc.), as well as more skilled at making things (Bezalel and Oholiab). He was one god (an Eloah) among many (the Eloheim). He was not the father god among the Eloheim, El, a Canaanite deity, was.

Much later, when Judaism got exposed to Zoroastrianism, Yahweh became a true monotheistic deity. And his qualities changed drastically to being more in line with Ahora Mazda, and Yahweh lost his affinity for war and his ability to do evil things.

Jesus is seen by Christians to be the true revelation of the Character of God, and everyone in Christianity approach Yahweh through Jesus, who has taken the role of advocate for humanity in order to pacify Yahweh’s rage.

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[quote=“ashtkerr, post:2, topic:7902”][quote=“Azael, post:1, topic:7902”]Hello everyone,

Due to genuine curiosity I’m interested to see if anyone has ever worked with/had experience with Yahweh. Evoking other Gods doesn’t seem to be an issue, people talk about it on here all the time and I myself have worked with Thoth and Anubis, so from experience it IS possible to evoke a god. Why then has no one posted an experience of evoking the Christian God? Entities within the Christian pantheon evidently exist -having worked with Raphael and Michael I can confirm they are very real and so is their power…lol, so my question is, has anyone ever evoked Yahweh? If so, what were the results?[/quote]

While I have never evoked Yahweh, I was a Christian mystic and I did experience visions of him. He’s a very Saturnian entity, and was definitely initially a tribal deity, whenever we spoke he always declared himself as “The god of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.”

He’s very much a taskmaster, as Saturnian entities tend to be, but he definitely has a matured feeling to him. As though he had grown in wisdom instead of the traditional understanding of him being an omni-god.

[quote=“Azael, post:1, topic:7902”]Another interesting discussion would be if you were to Michael -for example, about the nature of Yahweh and if he even existed. I consider myself a black magician now, and believe in what I experience, having worked with demons, spirits, Angels and gods I believe in them, but not once has an angel lectured me on praying more or abstaining from sin to please God, neither has a demon warned me that making pacts would ‘bar thee from heaven’ as Mephistoloes says in Faustus. So I guess the real question is, WHERE DOES YAHWEH FIT IN WITH ALL THIS?
Do you think he is a physical entity? Or simply an idea made up by the church?

I’m genuinely interested in the discussion.
Alonze![/quote]

Historically, it’s my understanding that Yahweh is a tribal deity, and he wasn’t just worshiped by the Jews, a few other tribes and nations added him to their pantheons. Interestingly enough, Allah was the father god of the old pagan Arabic pantheon, and Yahweh was an addition to this pantheon, meaning to those pagan Arabic, Yahweh was the creation of Allah. This was much before Islam cane around.

Yahweh was a warrior God and his spirit caused men to be better warriors (David, Samson, Gideon, etc.), as well as more skilled at making things (Bezalel and Oholiab). He was one god (an Eloah) among many (the Eloheim). He was not the father god among the Eloheim, El, a Canaanite deity, was.

Much later, when Judaism got exposed to Zoroastrianism, Yahweh became a true monotheistic deity. And his qualities changed drastically to being more in line with Ahora Mazda, and Yahweh lost his affinity for war and his ability to do evil things.

Jesus is seen by Christians to be the true revelation of the Character of God, and everyone in Christianity approach Yahweh through Jesus, who has taken the role of advocate for humanity in order to pacify Yahweh’s rage.[/quote]

Totally Agree with you.

I was myself Before coming to Occultism and the LHP a Christian Mystic, i even Become bery Near to become a Monk,

I had a Lot of Vision of Yahweh and like you said he was Always refering to him as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel , He Look and Feel definitly Saturnian .

I agree with you also on the Other things you said .

As Far as Evoking him, it shouldn’t cause you Problem if you have the Right Perception. Many Christian Group Believe that Yahweh is a Universal Spirit , Due to John 4 :24 that say:

''God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

But Other like the Mormon Believe that he Have a Physical Form similar to Us.

So if you try to Evoke Him in a Concrete Form, maybe it would be a good idea to Align yourself with the ‘‘Mormon Version of God the Father’’. or other Group with Similar Belief.

Or you can Just Evoke his Presence in your Room and Just Condensed and Structure Him in a Kind of Ball of Light or something different, its up to you.

Best Regards

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It seems that Yahweh was simply modelled after Canaanite God El (and maybe also Marduk).

According to the Bible and the Koran, Yahweh and Allah both created Adam & Eve; both manuals, therefore, present Yahweh and Allah as the same entity, though it’s two different concepts of God.

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I have evoked him, initially he wasn’t a very freindly guy at all and I had quite a few issues with him in that initial encounter. I agree with some of ashterkers above sentiments,he’s a war god. Some of you may recall earlier that I said in my encounter with jesus that he’s not a bad guy…well I wouldnt say the same about Yahweh, he can be lots of trouble. I eventually did some stuff so that were no longer at odds with one another but it was a lot of trouble to get to that point.

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[quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:4, topic:7902”]It seems that Yahweh was simply modelled after Canaanite God El (and maybe also Marduk).

According to the Bible and the Koran, Yahweh and Allah both created Adam & Eve; both manuals, therefore, present Yahweh and Allah as the same entity, though it’s two different concepts of God.[/quote]

So, you’re not wrong from a modern viewpoint. But, historically it’s not so.

So, the first historical evidence we have of the name Yahweh comes from an Egyptian inscription from the time of Amenhotep III (1402-1363 BCE), it read, “land of Shasu of YHW”, the Sashu were nomads from the nations of Midian and Edom. How did Yahweh then make his way North to Canaan? We don’t actually know, but one of the most popular theory is called the Kenite hypothesis, which states that traders brought Yahweh from Egypt to Canaan, which is completely possible and happens regularly.

From archaeological data, we know that Israel in the last decades of the 13th Century BCE, just as the Canaanite nation was ending. The Israelite religion emerged from this Canaanite milieu. El, was the father god of the Canaanite pantheon, He, not Yahweh, was the original God of Israel, as Israel is based on the name ‘El’ (Isra-el) rather than Yahweh (Isra-jah). His consort was Asherah, and they were the top-tier of the pantheon. The second-tier was made up of their children, the “seventy sons of Athirat” (another name of Asherah). The third-tier was made up of various crastman and trader deities and the final and fourth-tier was made of divine messengers and the like.

Yahweh, warrior god from the South joined the pantheon headed by El and in time he and El were identified with each other, with El’s name becoming a generic term for “God”. For more information about this I suggest your read “The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities of Ancient Israel” by Mark S. Smith.

El and his seventy sons make up what the Bible titles the Eloheim, or the divine council. In the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls (which are the oldest copies of the Old Testament we have) this variant version of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 exists. And it reads:

When the Most High (Elyon, i.e., El) gave the nations their inheritance, when he separated humanity, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings, for Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

This really cements the henotheist background of the Jewish religion, they were a tribal people who were Yahweh’s possession, given by El, father god of the Canaanite pantheon. Eventually, Yahweh and El became syncretized.

As an aside, there are two creation stories melded together in Genesis 1-2. In Genesis 1 it’s Eloheim (the gods) who made man “In our own image.” And in Genesis 2 it’s Yahweh who makes Adam from the dust.

And, Yahweh in the pre-Islamic Arabian religion.

Yahwah (Arabic: يهوه) is a north Arabian weather god, worshiped as a divine warrior who rides on the clouds and leads the armies of Heaven by Bedouin tribes, nomadic desert-dwelling Semites who lived near the Gulf of Aqaba and southern Palestine. In the religion of the Hebrew tribes of ancient Palestine, their deity Yahweh was originally one god among many; although in later times he developed into a major tribal god and eventually the Hebrews elevated him to the status of all-powerful creator god above all the others: a position that was held previously by El, who became an epiphet of Yahweh. In ancient times, the cult of Yahweh was not restricted to the Hebrews alone: their cousins, the Midianites; Canaanites; Moabites; Edomites; Ammonites and Arabs also adopted him as one of their many gods, the husband of the goddess Asherah (or sometimes Anat). [url=http://wathanism.blogspot.ca/2011/11/deities-beings-and-figures-in-arabian.html]http://wathanism.blogspot.ca/2011/11/deities-beings-and-figures-in-arabian.html[/url]

But in this pantheon Yahweh never caught on like in the Canaanite pantheon. He remained a lower-tier deity, brought in by the Bedouins. But, since Allah was the prime chief deity of the Meccan pantheon (many tribes did have different pantheons), Allah was the creator of Yahweh as well.

I don’t have a deep enough understanding of Islam however to discuss how Allah went from his place as pagan deity to monotheistic Muslim deity, though I know such a transition had to have occurred.

Any questions?

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Personally, I don’t believe that Yahweh is “the” God as in capital G, in fact I don’t believe there’s any such precise thing, because all forms aside from formless unquantifiable Source are seperate entities with qualities (which means, also, limitations) and therefore not the most supreme power in the cosmos.

I’m only mentioning this because the closest exercise to “evoke” Source and imprint things upon it that I’ve ever found comes from Joe Vitale, it’s an exercise where you see a “whiteboard” upon which you can write, and also which you can clean - in yourself - of writing, which then (he claims, and I have experienced it a few times) can affect other people.

So, I’m calling this “evocation” bevause you have to visualise this specific image, and I’m calling Source “the Capital G God” because it seems to be the force which transcends all other, including tribal gods of any kind, limitations, polarities, and also exists equally within everyone. Not everyone will agree with that and that’s cool, it’s a matter of personal belief and some really deep stuff, and I have no desire to convert anyone. :slight_smile:

Secondly, Wallace T, Wattles taks in his books about a “formless substance” upon which you imprint the image of the things or situations you desire, but that’s less tangible than the whiteboard, so I’m not strictly classing that as evocation (although, again, it works if you do it with focus and conviction).

So, IMO if you want to work directly with Source, Law of Attraction & Science of Mind teachings are the fast track for it, and rather than evoking “it” to stand in anthropomorphic form in a triangle or whatever, they give you visualisation tools to imprint your will actively upon it.

(There’s also the method of dropping into a state of being the sole creative force, and thinking things into being, but that’s deceptively simple and yet hard to teach.)

Okay, that’s my 2¢ on working with “God” - but like I said, mileages and beliefs vary about what God is, so this is just what I do. :slight_smile:

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Alright, Ashtkerr … how do we get from these various pantheons to the mono-theistic deity worshipped today as the Christian GOD?

I sincerely want to know this.

I know enough history to know that the books of the Bibles were originally scrolls that were assembled into the document portrayed as “The One and Only Truth”.

Where and when did that happen? Who decided it?

I was always under the impression that happened at the Council of Nicea during Constantine’s rule as the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire.

And Eva, you have an amazing way of nailing shit right on the head.

The Source is what I think everyone is actually referring to when they talk about God.

In my experience, most people sense there is a pool of conscious energy that everything is a part of. Where we get tripped up is how we label it.

And I honestly believe that’s what the spirits are trying to get us to realize … that we are made of the same conscious energy that they are, that everything in existence on all the planes of existence is just a form that conscious energy can take. And that we can create anything from that conscious energy.

I know I can create thought forms from it that other people can sense.

I know I’ve seen the physical impact those thought forms can have on our world.

I placed an orb of protection in my vehicle once and witnessed my car physically moved out of the way when a guy crossed into my lane. He would have hit me, but my car veered away from him without me ever turning the wheel.

It was like there was an invisible bubble there he pushed up against and it pushed me out of the way. I’m not saying that’s the mechanics of it, but that’s the way it appeared.

And I know from personal experience that you can imbue those thought forms with the intention of life and they can take on a personality of their own.

I kind of discovered that by accident and created an orb years ago that took on a personality of his own. I just thought about him the other day and he popped right up next to me. He’s happy and still feels like the same happy little guy he always was, but he changed the way he “looks” to me (it’s more of knowing how he looks rather than seeing it). I just wished him well and told him to go enjoy his life. lol

I can’t prove it, but I think we’re getting closer to discovering the reality of that Source every day.

If anyone’s interested in this, take a look at the zero point field research. It’s pretty fascinating stuff.

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[quote=“valkarath, post:8, topic:7902”]Alright, Ashtkerr … how do we get from these various pantheons to the mono-theistic deity worshipped today as the Christian GOD?

I sincerely want to know this.[/quote]

The Israel and Judaism that we know today in the modern age is a product of Zoroastrian influence in the Babylonian captivity. I posted at length here: [url=http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738]http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738[/url] about the influence Zoroastrian had on Judaism, mainly touching on the addition of Satan to the pantheon.

But before that, Israelite monotheism had earlier historical roots. Yahweh and El merged at religious centers such as Shiloh, Shechem, and Jerusalem. Yahweh began appropriating titles of the former father god such as Shaddai and Elyon. Imagery associated with El, Asherah, and Baal were applied to Yahweh in Hebrew scriptures. Asherah also became worshipped as Yahweh’s consort, she was titled Queen of Heaven, and her statues were placed in the temples (there were multiple historic temples of Yahweh worship); many prophets from the Yahweh-only cult condemned this practice and we have their heavily edited writings preserved in the scriptures.

Rainer Albertz in his book, “A History of Israelite Religion: Volume I: From the Beginnings to the End of the Monarchy”, theorizes that the Yahweh-only cult began at it’s earliest with Elijah in the 9th Century, though likely in the 8th Century with the prophet Hosea. But even still it was a small minority before gaining traction with meeting Zoroastrian ideas in the Babylonian captivity.

Basically, it might be summed up like this: in the early tribal period, each tribe would have his own patron god; when monarchy arose, Yahweh was promoted to the national god of Israel, supreme over all other gods. Gradually, Yahweh absorbed these other gods, until the catalyst of full monotheism happened from contact with Zoroastrianism in the Babylonian captivity.

[quote=“valkarath, post:8, topic:7902”]I know enough history to know that the books of the Bibles were originally scrolls that were assembled into the document portrayed as “The One and Only Truth”.

Where and when did that happen? Who decided it?

I was always under the impression that happened at the Council of Nicea during Constantine’s rule as the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire.[/quote]

This is a loaded question, and not an easy one.

By about the 5th century BCE, the Jewish people saw the Torah as inspired. And by the 2nd century BCE, began seeing the prophets in a similar light, though not as authoritative as the Torah. Beyond that, the Jewish scriptures were fluid, with different groups seeing different books as authoritative. By the First Century CE, the canon as we know it today (both Catholic (Read: Greek) and Jewish (Read: Hebrew) versions) was completed and codified.

Originally, the New Testament was a bunch of letters written to each church in each city. Every church had a different library and different letters, a different canon and set letters for reading during the liturgy. For example, Corinth had two letters from Clement of Rome (Fourth Pope), and Smyrna had a matyrdom of Polycarp. This made later debates difficult, because someone would quote a letter not many had heard about.

This caused the Church to see the need for a standard a canon of scriptures. So that they knew what was authoritative or not. We had early canon suggestions, but nothing set for the whole Church. So, a council was convened in Carthage in 397 CE, the Churches at Rome and Alexandria sent all their letters and books (as they had the largest libraries) and the council came up with a canon of scripture, checked it with Pope Innocent III.

However, because the council of Carthage wasn’t ecumenical, the canon needed to be ratified at the next Ecumenical Council, which happened to be Nicaea II in about 787 CE. This is what the Church still uses today as the New Testament.

Nicaea I (325 CE), what you said, its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father, the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter, and promulgation of early canon law. Nothing to do with the canon, though a canon of scripture would have made it a lot easier. :slight_smile:

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Thanks, Ashtkerr. Seriously.

These are the things I’m needing to understand as I’m pulled further and further back to Mesopotamia. I truly appreciate your contributions, brother.

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Worked with? No. Came into conflict with? Yes.

Why then has no one posted an experience of evoking the Christian God?

Probably because few people, even devotees, wouldn’t/don’t like him. He’s not a nice guy.

WHERE DOES YAHWEH FIT IN WITH ALL THIS?

He’s sort of like that mean older uncle nobody likes or talks to at the family reunion. If he even bothers to show up, that is.

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[quote=“ashtkerr, post:2, topic:7902”]-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israel and Judaism that we know today in the modern age is a product of Zoroastrian influence in the Babylonian captivity. I posted at length here: [url=http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738]http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738[/url] about the influence Zoroastrian had on Judaism, mainly touching on the addition of Satan to the pantheon.

Historically, it’s my understanding that Yahweh is a tribal deity, and he wasn’t just worshiped by the Jews, a few other tribes and nations added him to their pantheons. Interestingly enough, Allah was the father god of the old pagan Arabic pantheon, and Yahweh was an addition to this pantheon, meaning to those pagan Arabic, Yahweh was the creation of Allah. This was much before Islam cane around.

Yahweh was a warrior God and his spirit caused men to be better warriors (David, Samson, Gideon, etc.), as well as more skilled at making things (Bezalel and Oholiab). He was one god (an Eloah) among many (the Eloheim). He was not the father god among the Eloheim, El, a Canaanite deity, was.

Much later, when Judaism got exposed to Zoroastrianism, Yahweh became a true monotheistic deity. And his qualities changed drastically to being more in line with Ahora Mazda, and Yahweh lost his affinity for war and his ability to do evil things.

Jesus is seen by Christians to be the true revelation of the Character of God, and everyone in Christianity approach Yahweh through Jesus, who has taken the role of advocate for humanity in order to pacify Yahweh’s rage.[/quote]

Where did you find all of this out with your linked posts and this timeline of pagan beginnings of Yahweh? Are there any books out there you could point to for me? Seriously, everywhere I look, I’m only flooded with more Christian propaganda taught in modern Protestantism. Its annoying!

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[quote=“XxMxX, post:12, topic:7902”][quote=“ashtkerr, post:2, topic:7902”]-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israel and Judaism that we know today in the modern age is a product of Zoroastrian influence in the Babylonian captivity. I posted at length here: [url=http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738]http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/babylonian-and-persian-influence-on-ancient-judaism/msg85738/#msg85738[/url] about the influence Zoroastrian had on Judaism, mainly touching on the addition of Satan to the pantheon.

Historically, it’s my understanding that Yahweh is a tribal deity, and he wasn’t just worshiped by the Jews, a few other tribes and nations added him to their pantheons. Interestingly enough, Allah was the father god of the old pagan Arabic pantheon, and Yahweh was an addition to this pantheon, meaning to those pagan Arabic, Yahweh was the creation of Allah. This was much before Islam cane around.

Yahweh was a warrior God and his spirit caused men to be better warriors (David, Samson, Gideon, etc.), as well as more skilled at making things (Bezalel and Oholiab). He was one god (an Eloah) among many (the Eloheim). He was not the father god among the Eloheim, El, a Canaanite deity, was.

Much later, when Judaism got exposed to Zoroastrianism, Yahweh became a true monotheistic deity. And his qualities changed drastically to being more in line with Ahora Mazda, and Yahweh lost his affinity for war and his ability to do evil things.

Jesus is seen by Christians to be the true revelation of the Character of God, and everyone in Christianity approach Yahweh through Jesus, who has taken the role of advocate for humanity in order to pacify Yahweh’s rage.[/quote]

Where did you find all of this out with your linked posts and this timeline of pagan beginnings of Yahweh? Are there any books out there you could point to for me? Seriously, everywhere I look, I’m only flooded with more Christian propaganda taught in modern Protestantism. Its annoying![/quote]

You can find a lot on Wikipedia

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So, being immersed in a culture is the best way to learn about it. It was my five year immersion within Christianity that has let me understand it so well from all aspects. I understand the Christian inner logic about how they see the world and how they see their God (or the different views of such). I know the specific differences between all the denominations and churches and different theological beliefs and concepts. I have a deep understanding of Christian (specifically) history for the whole 2000 years. I have a heightened understanding of the very first centuries and the recent centuries with the middle centuries existing in a much more vague timeline.

So, in summary, these are all my own ideas. I did not read the pagan origins of Yahweh. I know the bible, so I know that God said, “Don’t worship other gods,” as if there were (Exodus 34:14). I know that when the Ark of the Covenant was brought into the temple of Dagon and after the night the idol of Dagon was bowing before the Ark; the people but Dagon back to his spot and after the next night, Dagon was found bowing before the Ark with his head and hands broken off (symbolic that he has no wisdom (head) and no power (hands)) (1 Samuel 5:1-5), this is a very henotheist view. If the idol was nothing, as later scriptures speak of, then why would it bow before Yahweh, why would such a story be present? Also, I read lots of commentaries on the Bible, and some of them talk about Israel’s henotheist background.

And so, literally, most of what I talk about is my own understanding and conception. I just didn’t know a lot of the details between specific states, so I drew heavily from the Wikipedia page about Yahweh in some responses, because it has such a good step by step, though I disagree with some things found on the Wikipedia page based on my personal understanding. I have a general basic idea, but I couldn’t theorize the specifics.

But, I didn’t read this anywhere, I just am an avid reader and I’m very good at finding connections between ideas and drawing theories from those connections, that’s what intelligence is.

But, I’m sure that you can find good books using Wikipedia. It’s a past time of mine, because Wikipedia is heavily sourced you can find a shitton of books in the bibliography. Yahweh - Wikipedia

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Ashtkerr. Not only you’re an avid reader but your mind is sharp as a razor blade. I’m actually very impressed with your intellectual capacity, for that reason I find your immortality goal paradoxical.
You should really study philosophy if you haven’t already done so.

In that regard my view of God can only be purely philosophical. Anything else is nonsensical (religious views). I do believe that the “truth” can be narrowed down and found somewhere within the doctrines of presocratic philosophers. Currently I’m more inclined towards Parmenides view of “The One” and the Eleatic belief system.

[i]According to Parmenides, existing cosmic space is not unlimited but is an enormous sphere. It is entirely filled by “Being”. “Being” is the only and homogeneous substance that, permeating all things (including human beings and the air) that our senses perceive in the cosmos, constitutes the cosmos itself. In fact, in the “vision” of the eleatic philosopher the cosmos is not composed of numerous entities – planets, stars, people, animals, trees, flowers, houses, mountains, clouds, etc., of different appearance and color, capable of transformation, movement, birth and death – that appear daily before our eyes, but consists of Being, which is an eternal, not generated, one, huge, limited, spherical, motionless substance, not becoming but always equal to itself, homogeneous, of the same density everywhere, not divided into multiple “things” but continuous. So: only Being exists. This Being, which is one, is perceived by humans as “broken” in many things, all the things that our deceptive sight daily sees: “To this One so many names will be assigned as many are the things that mortals proposed, believing that they were true, that they were born and perish, that they exist and do not exist, that they changed the place and their bright color” [/i]
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[quote=“ashtkerr, post:6, topic:7902”][quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:4, topic:7902”]It seems that Yahweh was simply modelled after Canaanite God El (and maybe also Marduk).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

According to the Bible and the Koran, Yahweh and Allah both created Adam & Eve; both manuals, therefore, present Yahweh and Allah as the same entity, though it’s two different concepts of God.[/quote]

So, you’re not wrong from a modern viewpoint. But, historically it’s not so.

So, the first historical evidence we have of the name Yahweh comes from an Egyptian inscription from the time of Amenhotep III (1402-1363 BCE), it read, “land of Shasu of YHW”, the Sashu were nomads from the nations of Midian and Edom. How did Yahweh then make his way North to Canaan? We don’t actually know, but one of the most popular theory is called the Kenite hypothesis, which states that traders brought Yahweh from Egypt to Canaan, which is completely possible and happens regularly.

From archaeological data, we know that Israel in the last decades of the 13th Century BCE, just as the Canaanite nation was ending. The Israelite religion emerged from this Canaanite milieu. El, was the father god of the Canaanite pantheon, He, not Yahweh, was the original God of Israel, as Israel is based on the name ‘El’ (Isra-el) rather than Yahweh (Isra-jah). His consort was Asherah, and they were the top-tier of the pantheon. The second-tier was made up of their children, the “seventy sons of Athirat” (another name of Asherah). The third-tier was made up of various crastman and trader deities and the final and fourth-tier was made of divine messengers and the like.

Yahweh, warrior god from the South joined the pantheon headed by El and in time he and El were identified with each other, with El’s name becoming a generic term for “God”. For more information about this I suggest your read “The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities of Ancient Israel” by Mark S. Smith.

El and his seventy sons make up what the Bible titles the Eloheim, or the divine council. In the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls (which are the oldest copies of the Old Testament we have) this variant version of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 exists. And it reads:

When the Most High (Elyon, i.e., El) gave the nations their inheritance, when he separated humanity, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings, for Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

This really cements the henotheist background of the Jewish religion, they were a tribal people who were Yahweh’s possession, given by El, father god of the Canaanite pantheon. Eventually, Yahweh and El became syncretized.

As an aside, there are two creation stories melded together in Genesis 1-2. In Genesis 1 it’s Eloheim (the gods) who made man “In our own image.” And in Genesis 2 it’s Yahweh who makes Adam from the dust.

And, Yahweh in the pre-Islamic Arabian religion.

Yahwah (Arabic: يهوه) is a north Arabian weather god, worshiped as a divine warrior who rides on the clouds and leads the armies of Heaven by Bedouin tribes, nomadic desert-dwelling Semites who lived near the Gulf of Aqaba and southern Palestine. In the religion of the Hebrew tribes of ancient Palestine, their deity Yahweh was originally one god among many; although in later times he developed into a major tribal god and eventually the Hebrews elevated him to the status of all-powerful creator god above all the others: a position that was held previously by El, who became an epiphet of Yahweh. In ancient times, the cult of Yahweh was not restricted to the Hebrews alone: their cousins, the Midianites; Canaanites; Moabites; Edomites; Ammonites and Arabs also adopted him as one of their many gods, the husband of the goddess Asherah (or sometimes Anat). [url=http://wathanism.blogspot.ca/2011/11/deities-beings-and-figures-in-arabian.html]http://wathanism.blogspot.ca/2011/11/deities-beings-and-figures-in-arabian.html[/url]

But in this pantheon Yahweh never caught on like in the Canaanite pantheon. He remained a lower-tier deity, brought in by the Bedouins. But, since Allah was the prime chief deity of the Meccan pantheon (many tribes did have different pantheons), Allah was the creator of Yahweh as well.

I don’t have a deep enough understanding of Islam however to discuss how Allah went from his place as pagan deity to monotheistic Muslim deity, though I know such a transition had to have occurred.

Any questions?[/quote]

Where do/did you get all this info from? Sources please.

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This actually answers a question I’ve been having lately, as when I was young and Christian, I’d pray on an issue and would receive a vision on how to solve it and what the outcome would be, and when I did exactly as the vision said, everything in the vision came true. Like I lost my PSP one time, I prayed on it and I got a vision of where to find it. I felt I was being tugged in that location and it was exactly where the vision said it was so perhaps he answered?

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One of the crazy turning points I had recently was a visionary experience. Because, what generally happens is that I leave Christianity, then I have a vision or a dream or some miraculous coincidence and Jesus says, “come back” and I do. This is a pattern I want to break free from.

Recently, after I had already apostatized from the Church and was practicing magic, some Christian friends and I got together for a prayer meeting, and they were expecting me to have a vision from Jesus about a certain topic. I was worried until I realized that my gift is my gift. My talents and abilities are my own, and they were not given to me. And also, Jesus, I had decided, was merely a mask I was using for my own divinity.

So, I had a vision, and it was filled with biblical symbolism and Jesus encouraged these Christian friends of mine in a very Christian way, and nothing was brought up about my apostasy. It was in that moment that I realized, that I had become a slave to a tool, instead of using the tool to further my own ascent.

It was a powerful eye opener for me, that these visions were in fact initiated by me and empowered by my consciousness, not an external deity or source.

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[quote=“ashtkerr, post:18, topic:7902”]One of the crazy turning points I had recently was a visionary experience. Because, what generally happens is that I leave Christianity, then I have a vision or a dream or some miraculous coincidence and Jesus says, “come back” and I do. This is a pattern I want to break free from.

Recently, after I had already apostatized from the Church and was practicing magic, some Christian friends and I got together for a prayer meeting, and they were expecting me to have a vision from Jesus about a certain topic. I was worried until I realized that my gift is my gift. My talents and abilities are my own, and they were not given to me. And also, Jesus, I had decided, was merely a mask I was using for my own divinity.

So, I had a vision, and it was filled with biblical symbolism and Jesus encouraged these Christian friends of mine in a very Christian way, and nothing was brought up about my apostasy. It was in that moment that I realized, that I had become a slave to a tool, instead of using the tool to further my own ascent.

It was a powerful eye opener for me, that these visions were in fact initiated by me and empowered by my consciousness, not an external deity or source.[/quote]
Based off of what you’re saying I’m also starting to think it could be my consciousness

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Worked with? No. Came into conflict with? Yes.

Why then has no one posted an experience of evoking the Christian God?

Probably because few people, even devotees, wouldn’t/don’t like him. He’s not a nice guy.

WHERE DOES YAHWEH FIT IN WITH ALL THIS?

He’s sort of like that mean older uncle nobody likes or talks to at the family reunion. If he even bothers to show up, that is.

I admit he’s quite gruff and expectant sometimes, but he’s genuinely got a big heart and is fiercely protective of those in his care. He’s not a nice guy but he CAN be nice.[/quote]

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