Man you gotta love Magickal Hubris, its just as bad if not worse than religion. “My tradition is right yours is garbage.” “Any asshole can see that THIS sigil is MORE authentic than the one YOU posted!” Shut the fuck up and practice your magick, if people put as much time and energy discovering for themselves instead of tearing everyone elses’s systems and practices down they’d be much better off. There is no right answer as there are competent magicians in every tradition and current and practicing from different view points all with results that are heavily subjective. Your basically arguing over what tastes better Coca-Cola or Pepsi, who gives a shit? Do what you want and in a way that feels right to you, your the only one you need to convince.
More time in front of the altar and less on a high horse would do many some good.
TWF, thank you. We are dealing with unlimited power here, what type of dipshit entity with all-spanning reaches would be so lame that it only has one sign to call it by? That’s got nothing to do with these entities, it’s all people who got to box in these entities so that they can at least wrap their head around some semblance of the entity’s power. But in honesty, you can draw a circle and a dot, a giraffe with some peanuts, or an elementary-school-bathroom-stall-drawn penis and call whoever you want. The rest of the shit is preference.
And quite frankly, you should not care one way or the other about how this sacred order of that powerful sect of people did this or that, because so far the whole of humanity hasn’t really don’t too many impressive things in relativity to its potential. So if you want to meet Abaddon, just call’em. You can make the shit up a la Frater UD style, Rose Sigil… it’s whatever. Use whatever sigils are here and trust that you can use any of them for power; it is not wise to look too far into what others are doing as a sign of what you should do, or what you CAN do.
And me and Divinator made our points. EGREGORES vs. THE REAL THING. It’s not so much about sigils, but about what is called through the energy signature of the sigils.
And me and Divinator made our points. EGREGORES vs. THE REAL THING. It’s not so much about sigils, but about what is called through the energy signature of the sigils.[/quote]
Alright, then please share with the class. How do you call the real Azazel?
And here are the questions the pop immediately to mind:
What if Azazal IS an egrigore, and always has been?
What if E.A., or anyone for that matter, made an egrigore that is more powerful than Azazel?
How would anyone know that I didn’t call Azazel into my temple, they weren’t there…
How do we know that you made contact with Azazal and not an egrigore?
Are you saying that E.A. is a fake, or leading people down a dangerous road? If so why not just come out and tell us. It would certainly save some lives/time and money, and you would end up with many magicians in your debt.
Those are some questions that just popped up from the voices in my head.
And I will offer my own opinion. There is no way to tell if I connected with Belial, Hecate, Raphael, Sastan, or Azazel(just lastnight) unless you where there with me. If you want to say that these were just egrigores, well what proof would someone have unless they were in ritual with me?
And me and Divinator made our points. EGREGORES vs. THE REAL THING. It’s not so much about sigils, but about what is called through the energy signature of the sigils.[/quote]
That was not in reference to you but to Poete and his dislike for Runyon and his camp as well as Daemonalatry.
As far as the sigils go you made no points, you posted some sigils from an author who not long ago said the sigils were unreliable and were not the entities they were listed as. You know what you can explain it better than I can…
Make up your mind Elison, they’re fake, they work, they’re egregores, they’re authentic…which is it? So what did you get from the energy signatures besides confusion? With the endless list of spirits you say you’ve worked with surely you shouldn’t have such a difficult time knowing one from the other.
As for Divinator he said the sigils were bullshit…no explanation why, just bullshit. Elison, judging from your beyond weak debating skills you’ve displayed here and on other forums I’m sure you found that explanation more than sufficient but the reality is no evidence was even hinted at to explain this stance.
If Divinator would like to share with everybody his reasons for coming to these conclusions he is more than welcome. I’m well aware of the reasons why he feels the way he does but was asked to keep silent and will honor his wishes out of mutual respect.
The point I was making in my previous post was that people are attempting to debate something that is completely subjective and unverifiable. You can not argue another persons experience. The same stance you’ve used as a defense when called out by other magicians here and on another forum. You can not prove that someone else using a sigil you had no response from did not provide them with a response. Just because you like Folger’s over Taster’s Choice does not mean the person drinking Taster’s Choice is not drinking coffee.
Yes one can tell a difference between an actual spirit and an egregore, if you can’t your probably brain dead. The difference is massive, an authentic spirit will nearly knock you over with the amount of energy their presence brings, an egregore does not come close.
Damn it Orismen, you beat me to it. Damn my slow sexy typing fingers.
And me and Divinator made our points. EGREGORES vs. THE REAL THING. It’s not so much about sigils, but about what is called through the energy signature of the sigils.[/quote]
That was not in reference to you but to Poete and his dislike for Runyon and his camp as well as Daemonalatry.
As far as the sigils go you made no points, you posted some sigils from an author who not long ago said the sigils were unreliable and were not the entities they were listed as. You know what you can explain it better than I can…
Damn it Orismen, you beat me to it. Damn my slow sexy typing fingers.[/quote]
Now I got the mental picture of Carl from ATHF sitting in a bathtub with roses and candles, sensuously typing on the laptop.
And me and Divinator made our points. EGREGORES vs. THE REAL THING. It’s not so much about sigils, but about what is called through the energy signature of the sigils.[/quote]
That was not in reference to you but to Poete and his dislike for Runyon and his camp as well as Daemonalatry.
As far as the sigils go you made no points, you posted some sigils from an author who not long ago said the sigils were unreliable and were not the entities they were listed as. You know what you can explain it better than I can…
Damn it Orismen, you beat me to it. Damn my slow sexy typing fingers.[/quote]
Now I got the mental picture of Carl from ATHF sitting in a bathtub with roses and candles, sensuously typing on the laptop.[/quote]
After all is said and done, I think the best thing for FDM is to pick a sigil work with it and keep a journal. Review it often, then when you are ready I would love to hear What you have to say about Abaddon. It would be very enlightening to hear your report of the big guy. ( I kinda imagine him looking like Ed from Full Metal Alchemist)
I thought I’d chime in here for the original poster looking for info on Abaddon the destroyer. I have detailed my experiences with this demon in the threads “The Four Kings and the Wheel of Death” and the thread “Hell Locusts” is all about Abaddon. I’ve done quite a bit of work with the four kings, the hidden sigils EA uses absolutely work, as well as the traditional sigils for Azazel and Belial shown above. But the truth is you do not need a sigil to call the demons first. A sigil is a simple way to connect with an entity, but his name, song or enn will work just fine. You can and should ask the demon for a personal sigil which you can use to summon the spirit with. Be careful with Abaddon, he will fuck you like a bitch if you’re not careful, hell he may fuck you even if you are. Talk to Necromaster about Abaddon, he’s undergone a possession with this demon.
[quote=“Orismen, post:31, topic:2081”]And here are the questions the pop immediately to mind:
What if Azazal IS an egrigore, and always has been?[/quote]
Actually, that’s not a bad question, but this should be taken to another thread. But I admit, I’ve been thinking this same thing lately, regarding spirits. There’s no way you can prove the spirit wasn’t created by a human a very long time ago and programmed to say it existed forever lol.
So you’re saying EA or another one, for that matter, can create an egregore that’s more powerful than an ANCIENT spirit (egregore or not, as well)? Please…
[quote=“Orismen, post:31, topic:2081”]And here are the questions the pop immediately to mind:
What if Azazal IS an egrigore, and always has been?[/quote]
Actually, that’s not a bad question, but this should be taken to another thread. But I admit, I’ve been thinking this same thing lately, regarding spirits. There’s no way you can prove the spirit wasn’t created by a human a very long time ago and programmed to say it existed forever lol.
So you’re saying EA or another one, for that matter, can create an egregore that’s more powerful than an ANCIENT spirit (egregore or not, as well)? Please…
They could always evoke a spirit and ask…
You can always ask, like I said.
I’m not saying anything.
Refer to the above replies.[/quote]
Well, I am glad that I alivated some of your boredom.
I will give the above incantation a try.
As for the rest, well for a few months I have come to the conclusion that asking the spirits is the best method. Orders and teachers are great and helpful and I will ALWAYS ask for reality checks from time to time (Thanks to everyone who gave Mol’zek a spin, that was a happy day) but who can I trust, well ultimately, just me and the spirits themselves. After a while everyone and everything becomes a crutch IMO.
But do I think that someone can create an egrigore that is more powerful than anything that exists, yup I belive that it is possible. Something created them, and I will become like that thing that created all this, and then I will surpass it… Or at least learn from it.
You can make an egregore that evolves past the things that are stronger then it, which is what I did and it’s a real beast right now and its only getting more powerful. But as they say there’s always someone stronger, thats the nature of infinity.