I am a beginner in magick (half a year). I started with angels, words of power, archangels with mini results. I always got advice that I should start working with demons.
Therefore, I decided to do one very concrete ritual to make one particular person agree to my counteroffer and terms. It was very very realistic not something that requires above ordinary power to be achieved. I called Dantalion (petition ritual from DoM), he really did appear, his whole sigil appeared on multiple places in the room and I felt his presence. Nevertheless, that person did not agree to my terms in complete but the person accepted a few less significant terms but most of them not.
Also, what troubles me is why the ritual didn’t work in full and also was my wording of the petition sentence wrong. Namely, I wrote “XY AGREES TO ALL MY TERMS AND COUNTEROFFER” instead of XY ACCEPTS…” Would ACCEPT been better than AGREE TO (although by dictionary it means the same)?? What is funny is that the person first send the email in which she/he agrees with my explanation of the requested counteroffer but later doesn’t accept them.
I would appreciate some feedback on the above problems!
Personally I’d have gone with “XY accepted…”, using past tense. Or “was happy to accept…”
There might have been another demon better suited to the task as well, like Seere.
It doesn’t sound like a complete failure – take it as a learning experience.
OP’s request was okay, at least in terms of what the author recommends. And, of course, considering that changing the system is generally not advised for beginners.
That’s what seems to be the problem, to me. If your terms were “very, very realistic”, then there is a high chance that your target was already going to accept your counteroffer. If that was the case, and assuming you used Dantalion’s power “to change the thoughts and feelings of a named individual”, then Veli is probably right and you could have called upon another demon, better suited for the situation, since you might have asked Dantalion to change something into what it already was.
i think you went with the wrong demon here too. Purson would’ve been a better choice here. He has the ability to “enable favorable decisions on financial matters.” This is really what you needed here
But if Dantalion can change and influence thoughts/feelings of named individual, why wouldn’t he also be the right demon?
thoughts/feelings != action. i learned that the fun way.
you can make someone else think and think and think all day long but if you can never make them act on it, have you actually achieved what you set out to do?
When i think dantalion, my immediate thought is love. That is his specialty. Ive never seen him used outside of that context. You look at his description in that book and you can see a lot of his operations involve love matters. Sometimes, this stuff just comes from experience and reading between the lines…but when they say “thoughts and feelings”…i really think the focus there is on how the target feels about you personally…not financial matters requiring a decision. So maybe dantalion can get the person to like you in a romantic/platonic sort of way…but when it comes to matters outside of love and friendship…dantalion isn’t necessarily the best choice. There are much better options in the goetia
Yes, I understand, it makes sense. However, isn’t it that when you change someone’s thoughts/feelings you will also simultaneously ignite a change or action?
Yes, I understand. Which demon would you then use for negotiations and financial decisions? And also, which one would you employ if someone is owing you money and doesn’t want to give it back to you?
well as i stated earlier, Purson would be a better choice for such things
Even for making someone give you the money he/she owes you?
Sure…why not? Just take a look at his description and you’ll see that hes a much better fit
DoM is probably GoM’s most complicated book, although at first glance it seems simplistic.
I have used it a few times with partial success in the past few years. I went back to reading the book deeply in the last few days, many times, and I noticed a series of rules that I did not notice during the first readings.
The most obscure factor is the question of time to result, since the author does not go into details about it. In my experience, things are unlikely to happen quickly, especially for newbies to the system. The fastest result I got took 10 weeks and many others that I considered to be flawed happened 1 year later.
I really like DoM, but I would not recommend it in urgent cases.
Really? This is quite an interesting point Jesss… I have also noticed that results take pretty long to manifest and I really do not ponder about them or lust for results. Do you have any other demon book in mind?
In your case, the only one that comes to mind is Seer (taking into account the possible urgency).
“To influence others to make a quick decision in your favor”.
well, think about it, or perhaps ask yourself that. it’s likely you don’t act on every thought or feeling you have, even if it’s something you think/feel very often.
Of course but I did not think their descriptions need to be so “rigidly observed“…
Honestly, i dont think they have to be. I think this really is just a simple problem of you picking the wrong entity for the job. In all the years ive been reading peoples occult experiences…this is the first time ive ever seen someone use dantalion outside of a love/relationships context
I did my very first demon ritual using DOM and got the result in 2 hours , I think it depends on person to person !