I’m not an expert in this subject by any means but I am of the belief that gods, angels, demons all spring from one source. I’ve come to that conclusion when researching religions. Start looking at the origins of the world’s religions and you will find their founders are like rappers who sample other’s works…
So a prayer/request/command goes to an entity that may go by/answer to different names and may be perceived as good in one culture and bad in another.
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For one lucifer isnt a demon he is an angel and they are brothers , as for liking each other I’m not sure where you heard as for the ancient texts they are meant to fight each other, which of course doesnt show that they dislike each other but god drew the line in the sand, for there can be no light without darkness and lucifer just happened to get the bad end of the stick…but yes I know without a doubt 110% demons and angels are enemies , the sources are from ancient things, that being said that doesnt mean angels are good demons are bad but as stated before there is a line that was drawn in the sand angels can be “evil” but they had alot more strict rules, where demons have far less rules
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Okay first off the Bible is tabloid trash and I guess you haven’t ever spoken to him openly?
Search this forum PLENTY of Magicians have called them BOTH and can say the same thing.
No, Lucifer is both Daemon and Angel.
Also Ancient texts? Lol, you mean texts written by old mortal men for a demiurge, bastard “God” called Yaweh.
Look there are no absolutes, read on this forum more okay?
Edit: also before I forget, Angels are not bound by Yaweh, ask them.
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You have your beliefs as do i , but ill take the word of a divine entity over a human any day, that being said you trash the bible which is an ancient text but then believe in the Christian version (name) of lucifer and Michael? How can you believe in demons and angels but think god doesnt exist? To each their own I think christainty has done horrific things over the centeries (specifically when it comes to magic and ancient texts we have yet to see) but there is some truth to the bible (even as it has been watered down and edited )as there is to all the other holy books, So i show RESPECT …reminds me of a wiccan mindset steal and mash up all types of magick then label it as their own, no harm to no one but lets force a love spell on someone , a walking contradiction… “Nothing is concrete” the future ,the world,even angels and demons are constantly changing evolving but there are some things that will never change, the universe has a specific set of rules that they MUST follow doesnt mean they can’t work together but do demons go out looking to work with angels hell no they dont so calling upon both an angel and demon will make it less likely they show up or even worse just piss them off…but referring to this post this is all about respect, when working with enties should always have seperate alters imo white enties dont mix well with dark entities it isnt propaganda it is fact that I know first hand … anyways rant over to each ther own
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You’re not wrong. Everyone does have their own beliefs. And a belief is a soldier whose job is to prove itself true. If you believe that angels and demons are indeed at war, then that’s going to effect your reality. And it’s more evidence that spirits don’t have an individual existence independent from the caster.
But, ultimately, theory doesn’t matter, results matter. And as long as you’re getting results from your magic, you’re doing well.
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Thank you, this is the idea i want to get across.
@Sera Everyone’s beliefs are valid however telling a newbie an absolute from your belief and saying they should follow it is were I draw a line in the sand.
I will only say that Daemons and Angels are older than the Tabloids man wrote and thus not bound by them, again ask them many have here, and i’ve even mentioned it to them however knowing the Daemon or Angel personally and getting results matter more to me than if a human made text is accurate or not. And yes i think Yahwah is nothing more than some storm dessert buffoon but that is me. Does it exist? Yes, if nothing else as an egregore but that doesn’t mean it is the supreme ruler and I have to care about it or listen to it’s trash talk, bigotry, sexism and general hate speech.
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As I stated this was my opinion by all means do as you wish for I am not the one who will suffer if it ends badly 
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And once again you push your personal beliefs on me and others.
This is why i can’t truly have respect, you ALSO will not listen when I say MANY (look that word up please) on this forum have cast successful spells with both together, at the same time and with no issues.
It is personal Gnosis and that’s fine but don’t come in and say your Gnosis is the truth over mine.
I agree, it is how it is for you and cool, be successful with yours, i’ll be successful with mine as well.
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@markus , just don’t be afraid and communicate, learn for yourself and make your own Gnosis from what the Spirits tell you. You’re a God after all just like all of us.
Belials words:
I am no one’s King but I have no Master. 
Sorry for the little differences of opinion, it happens and that’s how this world can work.
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LOL nope. That’s religious propaganda and my experience and that of many others here shows it to be complete BS.
Again, nope. Many do evoke demons and angels together, and many here have done so with absolutely no issues whatsoever. EA describes, in his book Evoking Eternity, evoking the Archangel Raphael and the demonic President Marbas together to heal his daughter. They both showed up, they were not “pissed off” in any way, and they worked together to accomplish the task. Many here have had demons recommend angels to them as better suited for certain tasks, and vice versa.
The existence of angels and demons does not, in any way, presuppose the existence of “god.” One does not equal the other. That is like the creationists who claim that, just because they don’t understand how something works, then it must be the intelligent design of their god (or aliens, or whatever “higher power” you want to believe in).
Angels are not “white” entities. They can commit atrocities, just as easily as the darkest of demons. After all, in the bible you speak of, when Yahweh wanted to wipe out cities and the first born of Egypt, he sent angels to do it, not demons.
To the OP @markus White and Black Magick do exist, at least according to EA in Works of Darkness.:
"White Magick is the use of the currents and forces existing beyond the normal range of sensation to enact specific changes in the world or its inhabitants in the most beneficial manner possible. White Magick is also the spiritual and ritual act of working with powers, archetypes, entities and symbols whose nature is altruistic or benevolent. There is a love, compassion and a lightness of heart that descends upon the Operator of White Magick. There is a holiness and sanctity which envelopes the ritual Circle wherein the Works of Light are performed.
White Magick is giving and caring. White Magick is using all of one’s own strength and the powers of the occult in bringing about happiness and positive growth. White Magick is the manifested force of all that is benign and righteous.
Few recognize the power of White Magick, and even fewer take it upon themselves to become the White Magician, the Mage, who carries both the responsibility and the ability to do these things.
Black Magick, then, is the use of the powers both within and without the Magician in bringing about specific change in oneself, in the world, and in all of its inhabitants in the most sinister manner possible. Black Magick is also the spiritual and ritual act of working with powers, archetypes, entities and symbols whose nature is malign and iniquitous.
When one calls upon the Powers of Darkness, a definite evil sweeps into the room, a suffocating blackness which cannot be bargained with or dissuaded from its devastating course. When the Demon stands before the Magician, His foul breath wilting all that is alive and his icy stare causing even the dust of the earth to
tremble, there is no question that these are the Works of Darkness.
In the moment that the Sorcerer sends forth his will to take the life of another human being through a curse, and the black emissaries rush up from hell, shrieking through the Temple, and an iron veil falls between the Sorcerer and redemption, the line between Black and White is drawn quite clearly."
i think EA’s belief about this has evolved beyond this over the years, but it is a good starting point for beginners.
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The only one pushing anything is you because I don’t agree with you , you get defensive and say I am pushing anything down your throat when I was merely just bringing to light your contridictions and answering the forum the best of my personal knowledge
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Clearly have not read but a few things from my responses as I have mentioned that angels are more than able to do evil , and white the light isnt just rainbows and happiness all the time angels are after all soldiers… And as I mentioned before yet again feel like I am on repeat when someone could just use a bit more reading comprehension , anyways what I said before was demons and angels the whole idea of them are based off of the Christian belief system because before that they were considered gods, so if you do not believe in God or the Christian mentality why pick and choose what you believe while still some what following their ideology ? Hypocritical
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Said the pot to the kettle.
I’ve noticed on the forum that you often continue to post and debate your position, even after it has been shown that an impasse exists. Sometimes the best thing is to back down.
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I have my personal beliefs about Yahwah true however i never told OP that my way is the one way and that the others on this forum are wrong. I did state i think, from my Gnosis, her absolutes are BS (and so have others here AND in other threads on this forum) so i guess we are all Hypocrites?
I debate, and talk, that is what i do. I don’t mind being wrong or right, it doesn’t matter. So life is about being right or wrong all the time? As I have said, i don’t care about being wrong.
This forum is about debate, and getting shit done. Anyone can take it how they will. Fine by me.
No one has to squelch their Gnosis for someone else.
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I never said my way was absoulte if you read back you are the only one saying my way is wrong and a few people agree with you and thats fine but lets be honest here most people say they have done alot (have talked with angels and worked with them) but really they have as much magical power as a grain of sand , not saying that is the case here but talk is just that talk …this is merely what I have been told , and im sorry if you cant change my ideals or beliefs but don’t get it twisted I’m not trying to change yours or anyones
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I agree, people do talk to talk but this forum is the first place i’d say that is more a minority than the majority. I’m happy to hear about “White” Magick workings just the same as “Dark”, being able to talk about both is a good things here as far as i’m concerned.
If any of us were to “back down” it would be no different than the stupid fights on FB groups. We work to get shit done and we do, that’s good enough to me.
Look if you didn’t mean to be antagonistic cool, i saw it your wording such as :
That is a very old way I’ve seen someone be passive aggressive and state another is wrong without saying it.
This is also antagonistic and just ignorant of the fact Daemons and Angels came from older texts than the Bible which has been researched here so i saw this also as pointing.
Wording is something that can be different for different places, and i do forget this at times. It happens.
I do not wish to change minds so i agree on that and did (still do) hope for your success in your endeavors as i will have in mine.
I have not once made personal attacks on her and would not. So kindly leave it at the door and don’t overstep by being personal.
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No. You are completely wrong. Angels and demons are far older than any religion, especially Christianity, which is a relative newcomer as far as religion is concerned, being only a paltry 2000 years old. Both types of beings appear in many older belief systems though under culturally specific names. For example, the word “demon” is a bastardization of the Greek word “daemon” meaning a “helpful spirit.” The terms may have been co-opted by Christianity but the “idea” or concept of the beings behind them have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Again, you are wrong. While there is some evidence that a few well known demons, such as Ba’al, were regarded as the “gods” of particular city states, that does not mean every single known demon and angel were considered a god in antiquity and it is just ridiculous to claim such.
This just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. For the sake of your apparent lack of reading comprehension, I will repeat myself. Demons and Angels have NOTHING to do with Christianity. They were not, in any way, created by that single tribal religion. The beings commonly referred to as demons and angels have been known by different names in different cultures throughout history. We only call them such names because that is what our culture chooses to refer to them as.
Claiming that the idea of angels and demons is Christianity specific is laughable, since that particular religion is well known for ripping off its mythology from the older sources of other cultures.
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You just like to argue dont you lmao but the idea remains the same I mean I can dumb it down or maybe type slower , but I was referring to the terminology , in that sense yes that Christian vocab, as with me saying about gods many MANY demons angels are referred to as gods depending on when and what part of the world we are exactly talking about even in astrology jupiter mars etc some believe to represent certain demons and angels… But they are called mainly things but those specific terms angels demons refers to yes christianity heaven hell…go ahead break this apart as well lmfao
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That’s outside the ken of the initial statement that you made. Yes, you have your own view, a view shared by many on the forum, including myself. And Sara has her own.
Sara was defending herself against you pushing your beliefs on her. And as the conversation continued you had the gall to state that she was pushing her opinion on you (which factually is true), and then you stated that it was because of this reason that you can’t respect her.
And then you said that, which is exactly what you were doing to her.
Your being such a Yahweh, creating laws which you are immune to and then castigating those who break them.
I have to get the work now, otherwise I would continue.
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Okay so ignore EVERYONE ELSE in this post who has said the same things i have go for it.
I am done with this.
I have already made clear statements for her. Period.
I have noticed i did not say she was wrong but it was dogma and has historical differences, others have and still are telling her she is wrong.
Ignore them, good job. @Lady_Eva
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