Did I make contact with Lilith?

I don’t know, why don’t you ask Astaroth?

Also, she's wrong about the elemental associations of the demons.

Elemental associations vary by magician, as do cardinal directions. I’m not going to take the time and energy to post or list every single variation that contradicts with another magicians gnosis that they feel is authentic. Connolly likely uses the association as The Book of Abremalin the Mage, its not like she pulled it out her ass or something.

When I read her book on Daemonolatry I started laughing. I don't know about you, but I don't trust her, not in the least.

Your an authority on Daemonolatry now? How about you share some notes with the rest of the class, I would love to compare them to hers and see what you found so laughable. Also which of the several books of Daemonolatry of hers did you read?

And I asked Asmodeus about Connolly's sigil of Lilith. He said that it CAN be used to call Lilith, but it doesn't do justice to Lilith.

So it DOES work? And you confirmed this with another spirit? Yeah, I rarely trust sigils that work too. If Lilith felt the sigil was not to her liking I’m sure she’d be capable of giving the summoner a more fitting sigil.

The sigils Divinator posted, however... and the enns... work like a charm.

Good for him, he did his research and posted solid material, as was mentioned by Serell I recognize some as TOBL sigils and if not mistaken some look to be from Dragon Rouge as both orders have quite unique sigils but I could be wrong as I don’t have any books in front of me to verify.

What is the ascending flames project and where can I find info on it?

What is the ascending flames project and where can I find info on it?[/quote]

It’s Asenath Mason’s magickal order.

http://ascendingflame.com/index.html

Astarte and Astarot are not the same but i won’t discuss that…
So far the best sigil i have found for lilith is a V upside down with claws and a trident on the middle where on the sides there’s these two eyes.

Ok, I admit. This I didn’t know. I’m gonna have to see for myself though.

TWF, I don’t want to argue with you. I’m not an authority on demonolatry. I don’t practice that. Demonolatry means worshiping the demons. I don’t do such a thing. I treat them as equals and partners.

I read the “Modern Demonolatry” book. As well as “Goetic Demonolatry”.

Modern Demonolatry was the one who made me laugh the most. It’s like a comedy in there. There were some good things in it as well, but let’s be honest here: If I were to write a book on demonolatry, I wouldn’t just throw together a bunch of different pieces of info on demons (especially about the hierarchies) that is found in other different books and, because of this, confuse the reader.

TWF, do you really think demons care about such minor details?

Actually, come to think of it, I have the TOBL book too. I skimmed through it and didn’t pay much attention to the sigils, I just wanted to see what it’s about. What surprised me is that it has the sigils of the Qliphothic spheres. Way to go.

Also, the incantations for Azazel, Azerate and all the other demons have a very powerful effect. I like it.

[quote=“sunas, post:33, topic:1990”]Astarte and Astarot are not the same but i won’t discuss that…
So far the best sigil i have found for lilith is a V upside down with claws and a trident on the middle where on the sides there’s these two eyes.[/quote]

So now you changed your mind? If you want, I can quote your exact post in which you said they are the same and you complain that no one listens to you. Hmmm, I wonder why.

I asked Astaroth myself. They are the same entity, only different aspects, which are the masculine and the feminine one.

His exact words, in response to the question “Are you the same as Astarte?”:

“Yes and no. If you called me Astaroth, you would see what you could call the demonic, fallen angel aspect of mine, just like you do now. If you called me Astarte or Asherah, you would get my feminine aspect, the Queen of Heaven, Bride of God and how others called me - the Impure Venus of the Syrians.”

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What is the ascending flames project and where can I find info on it?[/quote]

Follow TWF’s link and email the owner: [email protected]

It is the October project:

Our second open project was dedicated to Lilith, Queen of the Night, and Samael, the devil-god of the Qlipoth. It included sigil meditations, mantras, invocations, and dream exercises. The purpose of the project was to experience the energies of the two rulers of the Qlipoth alone and conjoined, through chosen aspects of their Draconian current. At the moment the project is closed. Invocations used in the project will be added to “Materials” section of this website soon.

Or you can just pm your email and I can send it to you.

Were you caught in a Bad Romance?

There was some talk on this forum about Gaga. Some believed that she was invoking Venus at her concerts, others thought it was Lilith.[/quote]

More like strange romance. I was in a room with Gaga(Lilith?) with a bunch of other guys. We all go into a room and she sits down in a chair in front of me and tells me to get behind her and rock her chair, as I do that she starts moaning and screaming, she hands me an envelope I open it and there is a piece of paper with my first and last name on it. The first night I did the sigil meditation I saw a huge owl staring at me in my dream.

Here is a good article by Nicholaj de Mattos Frisvold on Lilith. The whole blog is very good.

Contemporary neo pagan ideas of Lilith tend to see in her a sort of spirit of joyous ecstasy and female sexual potency. In the same vein there are also attempts of merging Lilith with Belili and Baalat given the motive of both names referring to a ‘beautiful maiden’. In fact these epitaphs refer back on Astarte-Ishtar as the Queen of these restless and disturbing spirits.

Lilith herself is a truly dangerous spirit, the Queen of lilins – she, herself the ecliptic daughter of Ishtar. Lilith is a volatile venusian potency balanced in itself, but prone to sow disharmony and frustration. She is a witch-protector, but is also a mother who feeds upon her own. Her mystery speaks of the beginning before beginnings and her grace is fear and tears. Her kindness is the black holes of exploding stars…

If we look at the Ugarit texts to our disposal, like Maqlû and of course the story of Gilgamesh it will appear that Astarte-Ishtar is in truth the Queen of the ‘beautiful maidens’ –the hostile as well as the benevolent ones – as they complete her totality.

Lilith, like Astarte-Ishtar possesses wings. The presence of wings suggests several matters; the relation with the winds being one – the connection with the Netherworld being another. The latter motive is found in the poem of Ishtar’s decent to the Netherworld where we read that the inhabitants are ‘clothed like birds, with wings for garments’. There is a agility to move between states and realms by spirits and divinities possessing wings.

Demonesses in general possess wings and in this case the winds take prime importance. In Mesopotamia the winds and their spirits were of great importance. The winds brought omens, blessings, demons – and illness. A cold northern wind in the night would be judged as inauspicious as the cool eastern breeze during the day would be seen as a welcoming spirit host blowing over the land. Maqlû speaks of Ardat-lili as an ‘ice woman’ and Lilith being an ice cold wind from the north. We find here the lilin spirits defined by ice, coldness and nocturnal winds. We all have witnessed cold winds blowing in the night that bends the branches on trees and generate a certain atmosphere of threat and danger. This is the winds from the wings of Lilith as she searches a window or door welcoming her.

Some states that Lilith gave birth to the moon – but this is incorrect, the lilin’s are spirits that carry the winds of nocturnal Venus. They thrive in the light of the moon – the divine eye that watches over them – but the idea that Lilith is a moon goddess is most likely incorrect even if the beautiful maidens drench themselves in the silvery waters of the moon…

She is the beautiful maiden that dominates lions, like Astarte-Ishtar - this theme carry deep meaning – and one of them being a spirit that dominates the powers of the royal crown. We might understand this to take place in Astarte-Ishtar being the powers in the royal crown and the lilin being the forces that supports – and in case of rebellion, attacks. This means that the harmful effects of lilin in our life are always a consequence of welcoming these spirits in by allowing ‘the lion to go wild’…

you can read the rest here: [url=http://www.starrycave.com/2012/05/lilith-mashkim-ninanna.html]http://www.starrycave.com/2012/05/lilith-mashkim-ninanna.html[/url]

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I didn’t change my mind i just said i wouldn’t discuss it, but after all there is no need to discuss it, you just said it yourself, what i think… it is indeed the same…just different " faces ".
Of that much i knew…
Now what i can ADD though…

is that…

ISHTAR is Astarte

Lilith…is …

…Ishtar.

Sunas, I don’t think so. If that were true, Astaroth would be Lilith.

Can you tell me the sources from which you got this?

I started realizing it last year when i was reading some books, but it wasn’t until She told me that i gained full certainty about it.

[quote author=Elison link=topic=2036.msg25361#msg25361 date=1383681426]

TWF, I don’t want to argue with you. I’m not an authority on demonolatry. I don’t practice that. Demonolatry means worshiping the demons. I don’t do such a thing. I treat them as equals and partners.

I read the “Modern Demonolatry” book. As well as “Goetic Demonolatry”.

Modern Demonolatry was the one who made me laugh the most. It’s like a comedy in there. There were some good things in it as well, but let’s be honest here: If I were to write a book on demonolatry, I wouldn’t just throw together a bunch of different pieces of info on demons (especially about the hierarchies) that is found in other different books and, because of this, confuse the reader.

TWF, do you really think demons care about such minor details?

I’m not trying to argue either, I’m just saying that Modern Daemonaltory which later became The Complete Guide to Daemonaltary is not only a solid book as it has one of the best foundations for practicing magick that I’ve found to date, but it was also a book that explained the practice and listed the several heirarchies to show how vast and different they are (just like most grimoires are different according to the author) not to mention the historical context of such since it was a guide book to begin the practice. She explained that one should find a pantheon or heirarchy that resonates with the magician/daemonaltoror. Just as a Satanist may put Satan at the top or a Luciferian may put Lucifer at the top. Neither is wrong as there are no absolutes in magick (at least none that can be proven beyond a subjective basis). Just like arguing with Sunas is pointless as his gnosis simply disagrees with your own and your both right in your respective realities.

TWF, do you really think demons care about such minor details?

Your the one who was complaining about her sigils. You stated that you verified the sigil works. Do I think a demon would care if a sigil was legit or not or see it as a minor detail? Try evoking a spirit with a smiley face in place of a sigil and see how far you get. If sigils are minor details why did you bring it up?

I’m aware one can make contact without them so to a degree they could be seen as unnecassary but if your bothering to use them in your ritual practice then they become a little more important as your making a conscious connection to it.

TWF, what I meant about the sigil, what Asmodeus meant about it, is this:

The sigil most likely does not belong to Lilith. But people have used it to call her so often that it became a channel for her energy, so it became “her” sigil.

Yes, a smiley face could be used in place of a sigil. With success, actually. Gazing at any object, especially a drawing, puts you into the necessary trance for the summoning. Also, if, in your mind, with certainty, you link the sigil to the energy emanated by the name of the spirit you want to call, then it will act as a sigil, as a channel of the spirit’s energy.

I like the one in the book of the mad arabee
The one where there’s a half human lady and half a goat

[quote=“Elison, post:43, topic:1990”]TWF, what I meant about the sigil, what Asmodeus meant about it, is this:

The sigil most likely does not belong to Lilith. But people have used it to call her so often that it became a channel for her energy, so it became “her” sigil.

Yes, a smiley face could be used in place of a sigil. With success, actually. Gazing at any object, especially a drawing, puts you into the necessary trance for the summoning. Also, if, in your mind, with certainty, you link the sigil to the energy emanated by the name of the spirit you want to call, then it will act as a sigil, as a channel of the spirit’s energy.[/quote]

Thank you for clearing that up. By this logic your original complaint was a moot point.

TWF, could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

You basically stated that Connolly’s sigils were not dependable, then you just said that any thing could be used as a sigil when a conscious and certain link was made that ties an entity to an object or image. So by your logic any sigil/image is dependable when the correct state of mind is applied to it. Some may resonate with a magician more than others but that does not mean they are not effective.

I completely agree with this by the way which is why one is capable of making their own sigils to not only cause change but make contact.

Well, yes, what I meant is that anything that would represent the spirit, not necessarily in an objective manner, would work. But that, objectively, Connolly’s sigils aren’t that good.

I love it when some 18y old dares to criticize a real magician more than twice his age, that has a million times more experience, skills and accomplishments, and published numerous acclaimed books…
that’s the internet I guess…