Ok lol, so he thinks that entities that existed before the xtian egregor was created, before xtian priests plagiarised and rewrote (incompletely) a patchwork of older traditions wisdom, leaving out the empowering bits, would somehow “fall” to this nonexistent “place” that wouldn’t be ‘down’ anyway, without explaining how or why that could happen?
Except that they’re right where they always were. So I think what’s happened, is, apart from the obvious physiological warfare in bad-mouthing a conquered culture’s deities, this idea itself is a buggered-up Chinese-whispers translation of an older metaphor that xtians utterly missed.
That’s another thing though - what avey meant by it, who knows. He could have been kidding for all I know, it’s an out of context quote from wikipedia.
For me, just the fact that this language came out of his mouth puts him on my ‘meh’ list.
Yes, you’re right, the Word "Prayer is kind of misleading or strange in that context, but it made most sense to explain it that way.
Mainly because the Concept of talking to the Universe is already existing in the “law of attraction” movement and their concepts.
And, it lines up mostly with that,
and that whole segment is kind of a grey area between materialistic non-spiritual approach and religious pseudo-doctrine.
To be fair, the exact explenation would be to have the Atheist Imagine the Particles to change and form the outcome he desires, and commanding it to happen with the power word “ATON” or Atom.
i assumed that way of explenation would be percieved less understandable then the one i chose.
And after all,
getting a person to understand the process wasn’t really the object,
but having people who can’t mentally attach to a sigil or God or spirit,
take at least a try with a less spiritual approach,
and still get reasonable to good results with it,
was my main motivation to write it and offer it for people to use.
of course it’s an aximoron or self-contradicting with the word “prayer”,
but the concept was to remove the spiritual part and just focus on how science backs the mechanisms and showcases that there is a real background to that stuff.
I tried to give some reference material on the logical process behind it,
but yes, it still haves a lot of potential for better and more easily understandable explenation.
However, the Hyperian Movement which has started to unfold (which is manifesting my Legion into This world and providing Human Vessles for them to operate through), is already working on that area aswell, of delivering a breach gap between the atheistic concepts and the laws of mentalism.
However, their Books are seperate from Balg and therefore i’m not going to promote them here in any form.
I still felt like i should provide some of that method to the practitioners here,
since we do have a good amount of short time stopping by kind of members,
which join, look for a specific answer or solution,
and after a while leave - either with having found what they’ve seeked,
This is supposed to reduce the amount of people leaving dissapointed for lack of results,
since so many struggle with their emotional confiedence and their dogmatic limitative beliefs,
which mainly should be bypassed by avoiding to much of spiritual view.
i’ll at least change it in the title.
Right indeed, and there’s plenty of cases of people without Spiritual Belief still using wishes to get something for themselves.
tossing a coin / coins into a river or fountain.
And it’s supposed to link to that section.
The Word Prayer was the best and fastest way to get the link back to Amun and Aton explained.
And, from a Magician perspective, of course it’s calling onto a spirit, but for the atheistic mentality that doesn’t matter. Lucky Charms and Lucky Fountains usually also have a history and story to them, for why they give luck to the people wishin upon it,
like for example some love tradgety that happened during the building of the fountain,
or a wild hunting story from collecting that rabbits paw.
Which, for Example Timothy expands upon,
in his statements and books.
He’s of course explaining it with LHP in his focus,
and does not aim towards atheistic view.
Religion revealed. - 3:51 3.
Delusion of faith. - 4:59
Well one way or the other, it’s part of that which was here before balg, and prepared / paved the way for it.
Now, Temple of Set is focused on Egyptian and CoS on Anti-Catholic approach.
They’re both limited to their Pantheon, and both are segments of the LHP.
Right, well christian faith had that approach of demonizing any spirit or god due to their “only one god . ours, as defined in the scripture” rule.
Well, Belief is a strong aspect of how both perception and reaction to the statements of others are handling the informations that you’re expieriencing.
And, i have to say i highly encourage the fact that you do have a defined personal view.
After all, that’s a main reason to do the stuff we do;
That, links towards beliefs of for example muslims.
Since in their view, the spirits below “god” or “other than god” (djinn) are having a life span and aren’t immortal.
You already declined that viewpoint when you said “Gods can’t die”, which makes expanding on that obsolete.
When we look into Pantheons, they’re structured from like Family trees,
and those first in existance, which spawned the other gods are considered older or previous generation compared with their children.
Indian Pantheon etc.
Have such structure in which you can say “this God, was the parent of this god”.
However, of course that only works with pantheons and NOT with the “only one god rule” in Xtian view.
Well yes, and the explenation of a God Existing such and such long is part of pantheonic belief.
The " I don’t believe in Hell, and Devils is a false Word also kind of makes me wonder…
I mean, you are practicing Magick, for all i know,
and Working with these beings.
Well i can see reason in your refusal of the Xtian Viewpoints and approach,
Are you excluding so called “Demons” from your practice,
or just considering their Origin and meaning to be independant from Xtian interpretation,
and therefore those false representations of them to be obsolete?
Just kind of made me curious.
I know that many deny aspects of the mental concepts or constructs that these beings are mentioned on.
But does that mean you work completely and soley with spirits which aren’t considered Demon,
or are you simply considering the Term to be false (meaning you view it from the Ethymolical view, that Daymon the Rootword simply haves a different meaning and the word is being used in general.)
Besides, i can now see why you consider some of my explenations and usage of Words “False”,
but i’d like to kindly remind you to not judge what is right or wrong about my explenation, unless you state it as an opinion.
I worked years to learn and overcome limitating belief sets,
and i won’t let others define those Dogmas back onto me.
Well, that is certainly Not atheistic. xD
Not exactly sure if you mean me, or Anthon Lavey here. Or someone else.
But, if it does mean me,
may i ask:
If i’m on your “meh”-list already, (which i’m pretty sure i am), how come you spendt so much energy into this topic and keep it flowing for me?
I mean, i apriciate the Work you’ve put in here,
and i’m glad that you do contemplate on my work.
And sure, not everyone has to agree with me.
But just kindly asking:
Why are you granting me so much of your attention,
if you’re not liking my content in general?
Thank you aswell for discussing on this subject.
I’ll see how i can improve the explenation and concept.
In Thelema you can pray to Ra-Hoor-Khuit if that is your will, using for example the song of adoration in the third chapter of the Book of the Law. Ra-Hoor-Khuit is usually understood in Thelema as a symbol or as a character played by Aleister Crowley’s HGA and not as a god as it’s usually understood in theistic magick. I have that kind of relationship with Slaanesh from the “Warhammer 40k” franchise, I know he/she is some concept created to sell miniatures, but he/she works wonders. In both cases there is a spiritual effect, despite not believing in said gods when praying, summoning or whatever that is done with them, as what ultimately manifests through that “devotion” is the practioner’s own divine nature taking the form of those cool dudes, or perhaps some other entity somehow related to the fiction that hopefully comes with good intentions.
" Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure’s sake! "
— The Verse of Slaanesh.
The seductive Mark of Slaanesh.
Slaanesh , also known as the Dark Prince , the Prince of Pleasure , the Lord of Excess , the Perfect Prince , and even the Prince of Chaos is the Chaos God of pleasure, passion, excess and decadence.
For what i see,
yes you took it from a Game,
No that doesn’t mean it’s just artifically made up.
It’s probably been put there by a Chaos Mage,
which intended to increase it’s potency by having it embedded into general subconcious.
For reference, see:
So for my understanding, you’re probably working with an Egregore there,
which said Chaos Mage probably created by combining Energies / Spirit Essence from beings associated with those traits.
I’d assume that there’s at least some Asmodean Energy inside of Slaanesh.
I’ve talked about this in other posts, he/she was my gateway to Gamaliel, as I found that what I was summoning was Gamalielic energy, but Slaanesh represents more for me than what Gamaliel represents, as Gamaliel is almost only about sex while Slaanesh is whatever that is pleasurable. I will make a Qabalistic dissection of the forces that I’m summoning when I call his/her name, and yes, there will be Golachab leather for sure
In the canon he is often refered as male (as the Dark Prince, for example, and he is called a chaos god and never a chaos goddess), but for the artists and the fandom she is more appealing as female. Her daemonettes are also nor male nor female, but are often depicted in a femenine sexual way, despite Games Workshop has done everything to make them look ugly. It is a very similar case to what happens to Goetic demons, who are worked as male by some people and as famale by others
U realize atheism doesn’t mean u dont beleive in spirits…its means u dont beleive in an all encompassing god (predominantly monotheistic) …A spirit or god would be more like software generated to uphold the integrity of this simulation…not all though. Some deities can be actual users that exist outside of our simulation, but can interface with the system that generates this simulation …like a kid playing a computer game…This is much of what I believe, and demons, and spirits have seemed to take no quarrel with it.
Honestly, dunno what they are but i explain reality as if it were virtual and technologically generated because mysticism, spiritualism to me is more abrasive than a fork scratching the inside of the skillet…Just have to remember this is just a temporary model, i cant account for the truth, and anyone who speaks of a singular god , or some other form of spiritual truth are more or less held with supreme skepticism.
Question is why would u use a prayer? Why not just evoke them using the system the entities work in? I want to summon Lucifer, I use his enns, sigils, and conjuration…I cant grasp how it is believed to even BE POSSIBLE to summon any entity whatsoever with prayer???It’s not a valid approach to evocation in my very limited experience.
Atheism is, in the broadest sense, an absence of belief in the existence of deities.[
No i don’t realize that.
Because it’s aimed at those practicioners,
that are unable to do so.
Those, which can’t evoke, because their Belief system doesn’t allow it to work for them, in the classical way.
Well, evokation is a different method than prayer.
Techniqually, in an ideal world a prayer would be somewhat like a letter or phone call to the deity you’re working with,
where as evocation is inviting them to be in your home and have a “face to face” conversation.
Sorry, that explenation wasn’t my best, i know that.
Being quite tired atm.
Actually most prayers are more like writing a note on a public desk, and hoping it may be picked up and worked at.
that, is my limited expierience with prayer.
I don’t usually pray.
i explained it above,
the point wasn’t about prayer,
but the change of perspective and adressing it from a materialistic, non theistic viewpoint.
i should stop repeating this.
Changed the original post.
So we can let this section of the discussion come to an end,
and focus more on defining the process for those which actually want to work with it.