Can you become a Lich? Hecate answers

Spirits, Evocation & Possession
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Caveat: This is my personal experience, which I am not claiming to be absolute fact. Also, the spirit I evoked was definitely Hecate; I used her sigil, her enn, and gave her two tests to confirm whether or not it’s her. She passed both.

Now, then, let’s get this show on the road. Note: I do not quote Hecate verbatim; a lot of this is paraphrased. I tried to keep it close to the the original dialogue, but there are quite a few deviations.

Me: “Can I become a Lich?”

There was a short pause, but then…

Hecate: “No…not the way you imagined it. You cannot become a living skeleton or a corpse in this plane. Nor can you bind your soul inside of an object. This is a common misconception, it seems. But, you can become immortal, certainly.”

Me: “Why can’t I bind my soul to an object?”

Hecate: “Souls and spirits are limitless, in a sense. They do not take up space, they are everywhere, and nowhere. Just like you cannot harness and constrain me inside of an object so that no other magician can ever call on me, you can’t concentrate your soul into one singular object.”

Me: “But what about my soul in my body? It feels like I am a soul trapped in it.”

Hecate: “It may feel like that, but it is not so. Your soul is not concentrated inside of your body. No, you, just like everything else, exist in multiple planes at the same time. It’s just that your focus is right here in the physical plane.”

Then I asked her some personal stuff which I won’t share. But, what do you guys think? I know there are some of you who do believe that you can become a Lich as it’s understood modernly, and I ask of you not to jump in rage, but to share your thoughts and experiences. Maybe you had something that completely contradicts this.

Thoughts?

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Seems to fit what I’ve been thinking.

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Honestly, the thought of a Lich is a bit unappealing. Imagine being stuck in your body for eternity on this Earth. Ugh. I always felt ambivalent towards this.

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Yeah, being trapped forever in this realm would be rather limiting, assuming that there is the possibility for life after death (which I still am somewhat skeptical about). However, I certainly don’t want to die before I’ve experienced everything I want to, so any form of physical immortality that still leaves open ye olde suicide route seems ideal.

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Ah, yes, given your background. You know, I am more inclined to say that there is something, because there are cases of clinical death (There was a doctor whose frontal cortex & some other areas were so damaged that it’s physically impossible for him to just “hallucinate”). There are also compelling cases for reincarnation, but that could also be explained by memory anomalies or something.

There’s also a case of some dude whose 90% of the brain is non-functional and he still has consciousness, so there’s that.

Maybe our Brain-Consciousness is not a Hardware-Software relationship, after all, but a Radio-Signal one. The correlation between brain & consciousness can still be explained by radio-signal model.

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Yeah, there are certainly some weird cases of NDEs and the like that make me wonder. My problem is in reconciling those and the experiences of those involved in necromancy with how intimately the brain is involved with one’s personality, emotions, and memories. We can see how the most minute alterations of neurochemistry with pharmacological agents, electrical stimulation, or crude surgery can cause significant changes to the expressed personality, to the point where the affected individual doesn’t even seem like the same person anymore (think Phineas Gage). This, to me, signals that something about the brain is intricately tied to who we are, and if this is destroyed, what made me “me” will no longer be there. There is, of course, the alternative hypothesis that the brain is merely a transceiver for the consciousness (kinda like a radio set tuning into our personality), which can also explain away the evidence, so I guess it’s more a matter of which hypothesis best survives Occam’s Razor.

Edit: hah, psyche on the radio analogy!

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I know of Phineas Gage case.

The thing is, personality =/= consciousness. Consciousness is a state of awareness, the ability to have an experience. Personality is that which we project outwards and some our internal tendencies.

Yes, chemicals can affect that, but think of consciousness as a pilot who’s only pressing buttons and using various options & programming the machine provides. If the machine is damaged, the pilot (consciousness) has no choice but to either abandon it, or utilize whatever programming or option it (the machine) currently has.

Yes, chemicals can affect consciousness, but that does not mean brain causes consciousness. When you smash a TV or a radio, you have not smashed the signal. It’s still there.

Just my two cents.

Imo, Occam’s Razor is not always the correct option. The use of Occasm’s Razor (and scientists in general) presuppose there are no metaphysical factors, or factors that cannot be detected with our current technology.

Occam’s Razor and scientific naturalism has practical purposes in the domain of science, and I can understand why it’s used. But, that does not mean it’s 100% true.

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Right, personality is not the same thing as consciousness, but at least to me, my personality is still a part of what makes me “me”. Without different personalities, different memories, different emotions, and different thoughts my consciousness would be identical to anyone else’s consciousness, no? Survival of pure awareness sans any of these identifying facets to my personality isn’t really any kind of satisfying survival, IMO.

On Occam’s Razor: yeah, materialists and mainstream scientists try to use it to dismiss anything metaphysical. If they didn’t have a preconceived agenda, or were willing to look honestly at some of these paranormal experiences, though, they’d see that in certain instances the simplest explanation is one that involves spirits or something beyond the physical.

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I agree.

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But, the soul is like an ocean you can take a teaspoon or a bucket full out and still have the ocean and your teaspoon …
I know that a piece of it just like taking out the teaspoon can be bound to an object.

I know this from personal experience, as a magician I trust very very much has bond a piece of me into a djinn lamp. As it was in that time safer theRe than out in the Astral and that is a long story in itself…but that specific teaspoon out of the ocean if you will, is bound.

But I am still whole and me. Just like the ocean.

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The idea was that you can’t take the entire ocean and bind it to a single object.

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Belial? What does he have to do with any of this?

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But you can take a piece of it

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My bad I forgot what I posted and already deleted it a while back.

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There is no sigil or enn for hecate that I know of.

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There is. You just have to look for it. There’s a Ducante sigil for Hecate.

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There an enn for her? I mean when I use others it connects me to the spirit like how we phone each other, would love to see one of her’s.

I would use her wheel to connect, but a sigil is nice. She is also not a Goetic spirit who were famously bound by Solomon.

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Hecate is female

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Would you be kind enough to provide the sigil and the enn you used?

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sighecate hecate-wheel-trans1 Here’s Hecate’s primary sigil from Queen of Hell and wheel of Hecate which I think is pretty damn old symbol of hers. I have used both. The Enn that I saw on the internet is “Anana Hecate Ayer”, seems to work fine but intent IS the main working force here…

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