They are both. But only from our limited view and understanding. We can all them powerful because that’s how we see them and understand their existence, we compare them to what we know. Ourselves. That’s how the human mind works. We give them, or they give themselves, human-like personalities and attributes so we can interact with them. If we don’t, it would be impossible.
But in reality they are pure power. Natural forces. Power is their nature, who/what they are. Not something they gained or have.
Godhood is a state of mind, it doesn’t change the fact that you are a human being. With all limitations of the human form. You can’t have both. If you believe otherwise, then please give an example of such God-man creature. Not a spiritual master… a God in human form with ALL absolute powers of a God. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.
Enlightenment is the same thing as “Enlightenment of Godhood”. The issue is that those who use the term ‘enlightenment’ never use their powers to be gods on this plane (at least in public on a level we can comprehend). They are all RHP practitioners. They are Buddhist, Hindu, etc. When we talk of Ascension as sorcerers and magicians, this to me is our version of enlightenment. Liberation is another term. The difference between enlightenment and ascension/liberation, is simply that of intent.
The crux of the issue is that of human consciousness, and the relationship we who are not Liberated have to those who are. First of all, to reach Liberation, we must transcend the human ego and be able to operate from a higher ego that understands its identity to be something beyond human. In other words, the reason so many magicians have a hard time believing that we as humans have no limitations and can be gods in the flesh is because their identity is still within the human vehicle. They are trying to conceptualize states of being that are not human as we know it, and draw conclusions based on the human intellect alone.
The path to Liberation takes intellect AND intuition. It is a path of mind and heart. We may not be able to conceptualize and relate the state of godhood within the human experience as it is now, but we can grasp it with our hearts. With our hearts, we can strive towards this state using our minds as a balance and reference mechanism (read: paradigm). To reach such a state, we must let go of intellectualizing at times and allow our intuition to guide us.
Then there is the simple fact that there are definitely enlightened people and ascended masters. One question I used to ask myself is why they don’t just prove to us all what’s possible. But think about it. If they were to do that, humanity would just worship them and beg for shit rather than put in the work necessary to reach their state of being. If you were in their shoes, what would you do? The onus is on us to prove what is possible. Personally, I’m glad they are staying in the shadows for now. It gives us sorcerers and magicians a chance to feel like gods when we are nowhere near that state yet… We have moments to feel excited and special about, rather than just experiencing the difference in where we are versus where our potential lies.
Ah I see. Well we just simply disagree. Godhood as a state of mind is simply self-delusion to me. Either you are or you aren’t.
Not a spiritual master… a God in human form with <…>
Here’s the problem. The physical plane has limitations. How would one go about for example, proving omnipresence, in a plane where space and time are related? The physical plane gives us the illusion of time and space and their interaction. To exhibit a property that can’t be translated into this plane is impossible not because the spiritual master or god in the flesh is incapable, but because you want to experience this attribute of theirs on the physical plane.
It is of my opinion but here´s couple of opinions:
What is the definition of godhood when everybody sees it differently?
Ascending infinitely is possible but it doesn´t always translate to our little physical world, the reasoning for this is that you need to ground yourself or you will disassociate and lack any ambition or drive.
3.There are many creative ways to do so but the more you ascend this way, the more there are sacrifices. I can think of couple of ways to do so on the top of my head and one those methods are not even spoken about that much.
It´s a matter balancing things out which is the more practical and also the hardest to do.
Well, I expressed my opinion about the topic and I really love the subject but I hate philosophical arguments. It’s my weakness I guess!
If the absolute God-man exists, please let me know, I’ll be really grateful.
All I see are attempts to go around facts. God is God and we all clearly know what God means. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. If there is such human, then we would have a winner ! If not, then there is no point in trying to prove it by talking to death about it. That wouldn’t change anything.
I said multiple times that we should prove it by experience rather than waiting for others to prove it to us. That was kind of my point in saying that multiple times. Nobody is going to prove anything to anyone with action or words. It must be through experience. My only reason for engaging in the debate at all is to help express a viewpoint that might be conducive in overcoming doubts about the possibility of the topic at hand.
I won’t ask you to clarify this, but I would appreciate it if you would not throw jabs on your way out of a discussion. Ironically, I stated facts about the physical plane and its relation to the traits you mentioned as prerequisite for a human to be a god in the flesh, and you simply ignored the direct response to your “facts” and restated your opinion.
A philosophical debate seems a natural response to thread centering around a philosophical question.
However, I hate arguments as well, so if that’s what you feel this all is, I respect your position.
I agree. I think there is some truth to what the eastern RHP masters say about the pursuit of power being a distraction. We are divine beings incarnate in my opinion. The thing is, it is about potential and the journey to unlocking that potential. It is a wonderful thing if you can look at it objectively. We don’t need to accumulate power the way the spirits do, because we are powerful beings already. Our job is to (re)discover our own power and bring it into the human experience.
In the BoA, a demon tells EA Koetting:
You have become obsessed with escaping this world… flying away from it instead of embracing the flesh… yet rather than fulfilling your purpose here - which is to become a god in this, the only realm where that is possible – you instead struggle to leave this world and disappear into that infinite nothingness, the omnipresent quandary from which you descended.
This is just my own intuition and belief, but I agree with this sentiment. It lines up with other studies and my own experiences. There is only one reason for a divine being to subject themselves to the crap that is the physical realm, especially for those of us who have incarnated many times, and that is to fully realize our divine potential here in the flesh.
To be honest, if we could not do that in this physical world, I would not have a reason to live. Nothing in this world has any meaning. It is the root of suffering through attachment as some would say. However, what if we could change this world to reflect our divine potential? What if we could live in a world where nobody doubts our potential, but instead everyone encourages each other to come up with new expressions of the infinite potential we are capable of? That is why I must defend the idea that we can indeed BALG. For some, it’s a philosophical question. For me, it is a matter of a life worth living.
Well, there’s a problem with “our” choices and “our” decisions and “our” mind. The lunar spirits will shut you down if you refer to humans as sentient and will not tolerate anyone sentient being referred to as human. They will tell you flat out that they ARE what humans experience as mind. “We are the thoughts that humans think.” To them, anyone who operates above that level is not human. This gets into the old “race of Cain,” “fish people,” “dragon people,” “children of the sons of God,” mythology, the Buddhist idea of there being distinct spiritual races and story of the offspring of Tara. The old, universal idea that not everything operating a humanoid vehicle is strictly “human.”
Energy/information/consciousness. We use three separate words to describe what is a single phenomenon–energy IS information IS consciousness.
This is how the Mind experiences ANY world on ANY plane. Before it is experienced, the world exists as information on a “shelf” – like a video game that is not currently being played exists as computer code on a “shelf.” So an astral world is “stored” on a “shelf” in the astral plane. A higher mind - magician, god, somebody, has, through exertion of will, taken a large amount of energy/consciousness and entrained in the form of this world. All the programming about what the world is and how it works is just energetic programming–pure information. Entrained or “coded” energy.
When your Mind decides to experience a particular world, it accesses it and “reads” the encoded energy - the program with all the information about what this world is and how it works. The Mind then splits into two compartments - one compartment creates the subjective experience of the “exterior” landscape of the world, and the other creates an avatar - the vehicle, center of consciousness that navigates and experiences the “exterior” world. When you load Super Mario Brothers into your Nintendo, the computer reads the program and renders the experience of the world on the TV screen. You’re given an avatar–Mario–who you have control over and then a world you interact with by manipulating that “vehicle.” The same software and hardware is creating both the avatar and the environment it is “interacting” with - the same hardware renders BOTH experiences - your experience of Mario as separate from the program is an illusion.
Power WITHIN the video game is not the same as power OVER the video game. If Mario gets a fire flower he now has gained “power” as allowed by the rules of the game. But there are rules - you have to get a mushroom first and if you’re touched by an enemy you lose it. But if I hack the software code or go out and buy a Game Genie, I can fundamentally alter the software itself. I can change the rules about what is possible and how the game works. I can fix it so Mario always has firepower, runs faster, jumps higher, etc. That is having power OVER the video game.
Spirits have power IN the video game, but the Mind has power OVER the video game.
Hmm, you have an interesting paradigm. I can dig it. The only thing I would question, is why lunar spirits? Seems to me it would be the solar spirits that try to dictate what we can think or say.
So in the physical world, humans are products of the game. Through mind, we can have power over the game. Spirits are in the same game but have no ability to exert power over the game. It just looks like they can because they know the rules of the game better than we do as the average human. Is this correct?
Do you think it’s possible to achieve the power to rule over the game responsible for the human experience in one lifetime?
Hmm… So for example, how our natal chart can so accurately predict our behavior if we haven’t dealt with those celestial forces’ impact on our mental/emotional bodies? It’s interesting that you put angels and planets in the same category. At first I was going to disagree on the premise that angels/demons help us ascend and want to directly help us in our ascent. But when I think about it, the celestial spheres are also willing to help as well if we ask. My question is, if these entities rule our human vehicle, why is it that they are so willing to help us ascend and break the rule they have over us?
You’ll have to talk to Phul, Thoth, Gabriel, Malkah be-Tharshisim, Chasmodai, etc. The way they explain it, the dimension of the Moon IS the human mind. Technically, the higher planets would have dominion over the Moon. Ultimately, Saturn runs the show.
The sun is the bridge to the higher planes - Moon-Venus-Mercury constitute the astral and etheric planes with the physical plane beneath them. These are the realms of false form–the raw intelligent energies from the planes above them are split up and projected into forms. Some say that the suns are the portals in and out of the various universes while the planets are the holographic projectors that manufacture those dream-world universes - in the suns we remember, in the planets we forget. The sun stimulates and amplifies intelligence while the moon suppresses it.
The spirits are masks of power. Since all energy is conscious, the video game and its various components are intelligent, programmed energy. They don’t “know” the rules - they ARE the rules.
Power is cheap. A lot of people think they want power when what they really want is autonomy.
“Angels” are old school Greco-Egyptian Intelligences with shiny new Hebrew names tacked on. They’ll tell who they really are if you ask them.
Well, there are two answers to that question. The first answer is that these are evil false gods, “fallen angels” who have imprisoned higher spirits in a false reality.
The other answer, which I tend to go with is that this reality is a god-manufacturing machine that is designed to teach us how to use it. Initiation is part of the program
We agree on the concepts, just not how they play out. Regardless, you have given me much to think about. I recently was wondering why a certain angel wanted/wants to help me out on my path so much given the adversarial path I’m on. I was beginning to suspect angels are just as complex as demons with varying allegiances. I can’t wait to start contacting some and start asking questions.
I agree. That being said, power and autonomy aren’t mutually exclusive. Also, the pursuit of power is perhaps a great trick to get us to pursue autonomy and become the gods as per the plan all along.
How does the Adversary archetype factor in for you? Just a part of the program, or a real opportunity to escape the program and learn to do things your own way, participating as you see fit? Also, are you familiar with the concept of the Black Sun?
I’ve heard of this belief before, but I can’t get behind it at the moment. My current belief is that the spirits are masks, inhabited by something else. Much like we are humans inhabited by divinity. I think there are even cases where gods might be from completely different universes just having whatever impact they can in this one. It just feels like there is more to them than just conscious energy/power. That being said, I do agree they must operate within some kind of parameters in terms of their interaction with humanity and the physical plane. I think we can change those rules as humans if there are enough of us to force a change, though.
