would it be stalking or a threat if it’s someone you like doing those behaviors? 
lots of members desire their ex back. would they still want them if they have stalker behavior when they return? lol
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I believe what Gordon meant by this was similar to Dion Fortune’s idea of how spirit hierarchies work (although I might be wrong that it was Dion Fortune), that when one calls up an Archangel, one also calls upon all the corresponding Shem Angels, and all the Corresponding Demons and their forces. The idea is more that the Demons first act through the Shem Angels.
I once did divination on whether the Goetia Demons have free will as I was also wondering about this from reading DOM, and I found that it is true in a way as they first act under an authority, but it is not the Shem Angels that are the authority and rather is more likely that Lucifer is the authority, but they glady work with the Shem Angels when called to.
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I knew @DarkestKnight would show up eventually without me needing to tag him and share some thoughts on this.
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That’s a becareful what you wish for situation, you just might get what you wanted. Lol.
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I’m glad darkestknight did show up.
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i dont think ‘careful’ is in many of the member’s vocab. haha. you see the post they lash out?
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In that example, it is the magician who is the stalker, not the ex. Forcing someone to return via subjugation of the will is the ultimate form of coercion and manipulation, which is the textbook behaviour of stalkers and abusers.
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i’m not saying they cast magick to get them ex to be stalker. the ex act that way on their own after they return. than it becomes a test of their love. haha.
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I’ve read Abit of fortune when I was in my Early stages and studying Golden dawn system. Her stuff is pretty mesoteric and lightweight in my opinion. I liked her fictional works though.
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If you’ve read Arbatel: The Magick of the Ancients (traditional grimoire), it says that when one calls upon the Olympic Spirits they act with ALL their spirits.
But my divination was not based on any works other that quote in DoM. To put it in another way what I meant about the authority, is that when one calls on one of the many Kings under Arathron for an example, they may first work under the authority of Arathron, since it is a hierarchy. So from the reading what I found is that they do not have free will as we understand it as they work under the authority of Lucifer (or another being, as I did not divine who), and when called to work with the Shem Angels, they may act under their authority. I don’t believe that Gordon meant that they are useless when called without the authority of the Shem Angels or anything like that, although I disagree that the Shem Angels are the Authority of the Demons of the Goeita outside of that working, but perhaps that is not what he meant either.
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Right …right …that makes sense.
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It’s been a very long time but yes I read it. I had an amazing hot streak working with the Olympic Spirits and then suddenly it was like a switch was flipped and I was cut-off.
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Right that’s what I’m inclined to think also.
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I’ve also explicitly seen that through divination. It was that they do work under an authority (Which are not the Shem Angels), and so don’t have free will in that sense, but when called to work with the Shem Angels then they do so gladly (To sum up)
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I know Henry Archer’s Magick of Angels and Demons uses a similar approach as Demons of Magick…I believe he calls it a ‘union of power’ which might be more fitting.
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Yes they seem to work great with the Shem angels, many other Magicians I know swear by that method. I don’t use it myself though.
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I like the sound of that " union of power"
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Members here have been very successful with the ‘union of power’ method in his book. I might read it again and try it again now that I’m connecting with angels more than I was through those trials.
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I must say, even though I didn’t feel anything and I was ill-prepared for the ritual (I had to learn it in the span of 10 minutes as I likely wouldn’t have had another chance to perform the ritual anytime soon), and consequently extremely nervous, the ritual from ‘The Magick of Angels and Demons’ that I performed was still one of the most powerful rituals I have ever done.
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