Can Demons Work Without Angels?

Theyre both good books there’s a few things I dislike about DOM though. It basically says demons are useless and can add no intelligence to a request without angels…. I think most here would disagree with that.

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I’ve read that book several times and never seen that.
The only thing even remotely similar that I’ve read is that the demons appreciate it when the hierarchy is respected.

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Magickal Protection is money though. Also remember that some pretty stout protection is called in the “Ritual Opening” in DOM.

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Hmmm- I stand corrected…I’m with you on that then!

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It’s all good, it’s one of those things that really stuck in my mind for years because I disagreed so much and had many wonderful experiences for many years before the book was even released.

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Yeah I don’t see it that way at all. In my opinion the demons are very capable of using intelligence to fulfill our wishes.

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what page you got that ? you may read out of context. The beginning sections chapters says opposite of all that.

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The page right before Bael

I would’ve copied more but then it flirts with more than a quote and can be considered a violation of copyright etc etc.

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If I understand correctly the author is referring to the use of the corresponding Shem angels to induce the spirit to be helpful. I don’t use that method personally and I no probs.

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Same, me and you basically started in the occult world from the same book. (Modern Magick by Kraig)

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I’d like to experiment some with it but I’m afraid of fucking up a good thing I have going with the 72 at the moment. Id agree it’s probably a " safer" method…I Know the OTA pioneered it.

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Yeah that was way back in the day. :guitar:

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dont’ see it. oh well. lol found it.

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I guess I just don’t like the idea of using a spirit to control a spirit but I’m not questioning the effectiveness or validity of the technique.

I don’t like being constrained I doubt spirits like it much either. That’s just one Magicians opinion.

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Just search “without angelic” and it’s the only hit.

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i think you read it out of context. he explains that the angels help the magick to make the demon bring out more their power. He’s trying to explain to use the process in the book instead of creating one’s own way that many do.

It also brings up the message that demons won’t attack someone out of the blue. someone have to command or request of it. basically they need a task of to do list. they don’t make their own list of things to do. that’s what i got from reading it. it’s not that they don’t have free will. They are like a robot. until someone give command, they don’t know what to do. they have the free will to use any means to achieve the request from others.

that’s how i understand it. Otherwise it contradicts all that is said of demons in previous sections.

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There’s nothing out of context about it.

It is a major contradiction.

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your interpreting different but to each their own.

it says strip" ritual" of intelligence etc… Not strip from demon.

also said angel guidance or "authority. " that means demon need direction or guide. that is the spell castor. Or sometimes magician asking angels to send ones’ request to demons as in this magick process. we are sending request to angel and they send to demon. it’s not direct request message to demon. that’s the safety part set in place. I think he explain that in other sections too.

No author would contradict majorly everything they said before.

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@Mike_Bee how do you read it?

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